Ep. 103 - Bouncing With The Sudanese

In this episode we meet a young German missionary, called Micha, who has spent years working with Sudanese across East Africa. 

It's been a rough ride in many ways for his family: a nasty motorbike accident, a cancer diagnosis, a military coup, an attack on the foreigners' compound. But through it all, Micha and his wife have sought the Lord and asked for wisdom about whether to stay or to go home.

At one point, their inspirational love for the local people even led them to live inside a refugee camp, in very poor conditions. 

Transcript

Micha 0:03

then three weeks later I actually had a motorbike accident. So my wife was with our daughter at the compound, and she just heard a loud bang, and then there was like, "Oh, white man, white man, white man." And we were the only white people who are there, so she was running, running there, and she saw me laying on the ground. there was a hospital next to us. they took me there. my wife was speaking with me, but, I don't know what happened. I have a, like, there's a black screen for me. I have no memories. I didn't know what happened.

Speaker 2 0:38

Hi guys. Welcome back to Raw Mission, the podcast where we hear the stories of ordinary men and women who've experienced the goodness of God and who've responded to His call, His command, His invitation to take the good news to the least reached.

Speaker 0:52

I'm Matt, your host, and today I'm joined by Micha, who with his family has been living for many years amongst the Sudanese in various East African countries He'll be talking about the joys of living inside a refugee camp, caring for those who've lost so much after fleeing violence and conflict. And he'll also share about the very real danger of living in a politically unstable part of Africa, how his family have managed to keep pressing on in spite of a coup, an attack on their compound, and a nasty motorbike accident that hospitalized Micha for a long time

Matt 1:25

Well, welcome, Micha, to the podcast. It's great to have you on. Tell us where you are, as much as you can these days, where are you speaking to me from?

Micha 1:33

East Africa, I would say, right now nice to be here with you.

Matt 1:37

you're not from East Africa. Tell us where you grew up and a little bit about how you got called by the Lord into this kind of work- Mm that you've been doing for quite a few years now.

Micha 1:46

Yeah. I grew up in Germany in a small village, probably, like, 1,000, 2,000, people living there, in a church, Christian family. with all of these things like Sunday school and kids camps and all of this stuff. but my church is focused on, praying for missionaries and there was always missionaries coming. so I learned a lot from this, since I was a kid. And so when I was 18 or so, I went with my, friend. We were praying for missionaries over the seas, and we learned a lot of different ways to pray. that was amazing. and then there was this time when I was thinking, well, that this question came up. should I go, as well as a worker overseas? and then, did my normal, work. Like I'm a mechanic, and then I did a master in that. And then doing the master, I was 23 years old. I, asked God again, should I go for overseas? And then, I spent one year in Zambia, actually, with, OM, Operation mobilization. and I told God, "Okay, this year is for you. should I go for long-term, overseas working?" So I just gave him this year and focused on him, and was reading a lot in the Bible. And, we were in Zambia, so very African, very poor country. and it was amazing time. And God, spoke to me very clearly in this time, through different things, through my, normal Bible reading, but actually also through like this small videos on YouTube, like for 1040 Windows, Like all the workers go somewhere, but not to the unreached people groups, And this really touched my heart. and I felt really called there.

Matt 3:34

Were you mostly surrounded by Christians in Zambia?

Micha 3:38

Yes. Zambia is a very, very Christian country. So all around me was Christians. and I had even questions, okay, why are workers here? Like, why are missionaries here? I, mean, they're doing good work there. but, actually, where I was, at the OM base, they actually had Africans there to send them out to other countries. Mm-hmm. So there was a lot of this identity there. We want to go to the Muslims and I went with, some other Zambians, to the East to Muslims, where there's a lot of Muslims people around in this area in Zambia. And they did outreach there. And for me, it was the first time actually seeing Muslims, outside of Germany, but, like, very deep with the mosque, with the prayer calls in the morning and all of this stuff. And there was one friend of this one, missionary there who, like, the Muslim invited me to come with him to his lodge, to a game park, and went for three days with this Muslim, and His name was Mohammed, of course. so Mohammed invited me, to his lodge, and then he had, like, two other friends, and they were, like, 20 years older than me. So they were, like, 50, and I was, like, 23. and I was, like, the whole weekend with them together. And, and I really saw how they believed. There were these two other friends that came from South Africa, and they were discussing what their imam is telling them and what their imam is allow them and stuff like that. And I was like, "Oh, this is crazy how actually lost they are." they try everything to do right, but, even their, close friends, they have, like, different beliefs because there's one imam tells them this, and the other imam tells them that. and this was the first time I actually was really engaged with Muslims there, and I felt deep love for them.

Matt 5:23

Yeah. And so you could see how many rules they had to obey- Yeah and to follow and just trying to get everything right, all the details and- it is sad sometimes, isn't it? You can really appreciate how dedicated they are, but sometimes- Yeah it's just sad. they don't have that relationship, that connection, that assurance of forgiveness that the gospel offers.

Micha 5:42

Yes. Yes.

Matt 5:43

So that was your year in Zambia. Any other key highlights or difficult moments from that year with OM in Zambia?

Micha 5:50

Oh, there was a lot of highlights. I had malaria and all of this stuff there. But I felt it was, like, part of living there. but I had a clear calling, like, okay, I want to go to the unreached people groups and to the Muslims. and then I actually got to know my wife in Zambia as well,

Matt 6:08

yeah. Nice. where's your wife from?

Micha 6:10

She's from Switzerland. but she grew up in Senegal. and she wa- just visited Zambia for two month there. She visited friends, so we got to know each other. And I would make the story short, we fell in love, but we were very clear we had both the calling to go out. yeah, we came in together, then in Germany, 2014 and then got married 2016. Yeah, we were very driven on, like, okay, we know we have both the calling, to go oversee our work. first I was a little bit feared to tell my wife, to tell her that I want to go to the unreached people groups, to the Muslims. so I was like, I don't tell her first. but When I told her, she was like, "Ah, I'm so happy that you don't want to go to Zambia again." she was, very happy 'cause she had the same calling. and yeah, we had the focus on first get married, and then we focused on, which organization we were first looking for Iraq because We thought there's a open door for us to go, with OM back then, but it, somehow closed, with Iraq back then, there was the ISIS stuff very big, so I told my parents, "Well, I going to Iraq," and they was like, "Whoa. Wow. Let's think about that." but, yeah, I think it helped us to process a lot of things. what does it mean to go overseas and to go to some countries like that? but yeah, in the end the door closed to Iraq and we were looking for a different organization, and we ended up with, Frontiers then in Germany. And we really felt that, wow, this is our heart, the prayer, working in teams, all of this. But we were really, okay, we will go with them. and then, we're looking, okay, where do we go, and let's see where God's opened door for us.

Matt 7:54

That's great. So you both had a background in Africa and a love for unreached peoples. and then actually, of course, you have similar sort of part of Europe that you came from. I presume- Yeah y- your wife spoke German as well?

Micha 8:08

I mean, she is from the French part of Switzerland. so they normally speaking French at home, but she speaks very well. Like, she speaks German, But I don't speak any French,

Matt 8:18

Right. So then how did you guys end up in the east of Africa?

Micha 8:23

well, when we were looking for the organizations, we checked up on the internet, where Frontiers was looking for people, and they were looking for people in South Sudan. And I was like, okay, my wife is a nurse and I'm a mechanic, and they were looking for every kind of people. we felt, well, they're looking always for teachers, you know? Yeah. Teacher, they want everywhere teachers, but we are not, no teachers. we want to do something practical Yeah. so they were looking for people for South Sudan. Any kind of people can go to South Sudan and work there. We said, "Okay." So we had kind of a list, like when we first were thinking, okay, where do we want to go? Like, we were very open. But sometimes, it's good to be open, I would say, but sometimes it's helping. Okay, what is our heart? where do we love to go? So we were writing down, okay, we love Africa, because we both were in Africa, so we love Africa. So if we can, we will go to Africa. then, like Muslims was clear we want to go to Muslims. tough places, so we wrote down, okay, where there's no one or not so many people. We wanted to go to these places. we wrote down French-speaking. because I could learn French. But it was like, that would be, nice to have, but don't have to be. So we wrote down some of these things, and then we looked up, on the internet, okay, where does Frontiers look for people? And we found South Sudan. We didn't know much about South Sudan back then actually, so we were just like, okay, they're looking for people. Everyone, like nurses, mechanics, anyone can go. So we wrote them, "Okay, we will go. We are happy to go to for a vision trip to South Sudan." We did our vision trip in, I think, February 2017. So there was a big clash in South Sudan 2016. so there was a lot of fightings going on. So we did a vision trip there, and we went different parts of South Sudan. it's a very tough country. but we were saying, "Well, we can manage to go there." And there was another, couple with us, and they are two doctors, and they said, "Oh, well, we can also manage to go there." so we decided together with them, so they would be team leaders and we would go with them together, there to South Sudan.

Matt 10:35

That's good, 'cause we often say it's more about availability than ability. if you're willing- Yeah the Lord is often saying, "Who will go?" He's looking for volunteers. We don't have to have a big voice from heaven.

Micha 10:46

Yes, exactly. So, like, we did the vision trip 2017, and then we did candidate's course 2017. So we quit our jobs. and then, in 2018, I think, we went to South Sudan. first in January, our daughter was born, so yeah. Wow. So we had a newborn, with us. it was quite tough with some people, that we will go to this country, so we had to manage this one a little bit. there was, like, some voices who said, "Well, we can't go there as a family. Maybe you alone, but not with a newborn there." Yeah.

Matt 11:22

Yeah. I remember someone saying to us, "Are you taking your daughter with you?" She was three months when we went to as a family. Yes. And, uh, well, of course we're taking her. We're not leaving her behind.

Micha 11:33

Yes, exactly.

Matt 11:35

People do have babies- Yeah out there. It's okay.

Micha 11:37

Yeah, exactly. so yeah, our team leaders, they started, I think, one or two month earlier in the country, and then we came to them. We started in the capital in Juba. the beginning was very tough. Like, we were in a guest house, so we, just had one room with a bathroom, but we, couldn't cook for ourselves, so we were just eating out street foods and stuff. So I was like, every two weeks, I was laying down in the bed with fever and some bug in my stomach. So, like, was terrible. but yeah, we managed, I would say.

Matt 12:12

Wow. Yeah, it's difficult when you first arrive. Your body's not used to the food. Your body's not used to the- Yeah temperatures, and especially if you have a young baby, it's, it is a big stress.

Micha 12:22

Yeah.

Matt 12:22

It's a big challenge. Yes. yeah, talk us through more of the environment in South Sudan. What did it look like? What did it feel like? What did you see on the streets? What were the real challenges for somebody just starting?

Micha 12:35

Yeah. So South Sudan was very- tough back then. like there was no electricity in the capital, so everything was with generator running on the hotels and stuff like that. so actually the airport was a tent, very, very basic. And in the evenings, like you were supposed to be at the compound in the evening, like with sundown because on the evenings there would be gunshots outside and like people robberies going around. so it was very tough in the beginning. but then, we started in Juba, but we didn't stay long time in Juba. two months probably. and then we went to different parts in South Sudan. so we had one worker, at this place he had to fly out to get married actually, and we were saying, "Okay, we will help you with the business there." and we stayed there, and we tried to help him to do all this stuff. but it was very, tough time there Maban. I think after we arrived, so the missionary, left, so then we were there with our team leaders. and then there was a big clash coming, from the community and all the NGOs were burnt down. like the whole camp was on the streets. And People told us, "Don't go out. they're beating white people." So we were hiding inside the house with our small daughter, six month old. and then there were people coming into the compound, bashing at the door, and I was like holding the door. So it was very intense time. Mm. So we were actually thinking, "Okay, time is over for us as a team." Like, think, "Okay, God, this is yours now. We come to you." so this- Wow was in our heads.

Matt 14:11

Yeah that sounds so scary and traumatizing. What was the reason they were coming for foreigners at that point? Was it just the collapse of civil society and just gangs just wanting money and stuff, power vacuums, or was it something against the foreigners?

Micha 14:27

So it was one of the biggest evacuation for the NGOs actually in South Sudan. and it was the first time where actually the people went against the foreigners. And the reason is not very logical. like the people who were on the ground, they wanted to have work from the NGOs. but they were not educated. And the NGOs, they really tried to give work to people who were educated. but like somehow, the youth was not happy with that. and there were some rumors as well, like probably some fractions from Sudan gave some money to make problems there, there were some rumors like that. So in the end, things exploded very much. and all the NGOs and UN, compound was completely burnt down. and everyone was flying out. and- we did as well then. the next day, we evacuated to Uganda then. we took two month in Uganda to refocus, also to go to our theology of suffering again. Okay, what does it mean? Sometimes it's so easy to say, "Yeah, well, I will suffer for Jesus," and then what does it mean Yeah. it was very, tough time, especially for my wife. she was like, "Well, I want to go home." so we took some time reading the Bible, praying together, and then after two month, we were going back. So our team leaders, they went back earlier, and then we came, and they had to fly out then, so we were again alone. We were alone at this place. trusting in the people again. because the thing is what happened before, you didn't saw it coming. So and one day everything is fine, and next day everything exploded. there was no signs to see.

Matt 16:07

Wow. Can you say something about- How your theology was shaped, what kind of things did you learn and think about that gave you that courage- Um to return back to the country?

Micha 16:20

Well, I would say we were looking in the Bible and see, okay, like, yeah, people are suffering and people are, dying because of Christ's sake. so before we were, "Okay, Jesus, you called us here. we will be safe," but this is not the truth. but we still had the calling, from Jesus, we should go there. we should be working under Sudanese. and we prayed and had just trusted, God, okay, it's time to go back. and He's with us. and I think what we learned in all of this, He was always with us, we felt Him in all of these parts. like looking back, He was always there with us and holding us, and crying with us. yeah. So this gave us the courage to go back, but okay, things like this can happen again. So, okay, this is where are called to, and we will go again and see what's coming.

Matt 17:12

Yeah. that's really interesting. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I'm sure that was a, yeah, very, very tough time. okay. So then you went back. did you go to a new location in South Sudan, and did you find you were using your skills in nursing and mechanics and so on?

Micha 17:29

well, we went back to this place, starting again, with language learning, and then three weeks later I actually had a motorbike accident. So my wife was with our daughter at the compound, and she just heard a loud bang, and then there was like, "Oh, white man, white man, white man." And we were the only white people who are there, so she was running, running there, and she saw me laying on the ground. there was a hospital next to us. they took me there. my wife was speaking with me, but, I don't know what happened. I have a, like, there's a black screen for me. I have no memories. So- I didn't know what happened.

Matt 18:10

a car hit your bike,

Micha 18:11

no, a bike, hit me and, I was, very slow, but the bike, they were probably drunk, and they were very fast, and they hit me. And I- Mm didn't wear a helmet, which was very bad. So, you should never do Yeah.

Matt 18:25

Yeah, it's hard in some of those cultures. It's not very common often, is it, to wear a- Yeah helmet in the heat or

Micha 18:29

something. Yeah. I mean, normally I wear a helmet, but I just wanted to go very fast to this small place, next to us to check for emails, because we didn't have internet on our compound, so we, always had to go there. So on the way back, I got hit from a motorbike, and I broke my jaw. I had a small brain bleeding. but there was no X-ray or stuff like that working at the hospital, so there was actually a power cut back then, and it took, two days until I was flown out to Kenya.

Matt 19:01

Oh, wow.

Micha 19:01

So- so we flew to Kenya, and then they asked us, okay, we are happy to stay in Kenya or if you want to go back to Germany. and we both had the peace to stay in Kenya. We said, "If we go back to Germany, we will never go back," we said. "So we'll stay in Kenya." Had the peace for that. and then there was a Kenyan doctor who was very, trained in this. Like, he goes to Germany and to Switzerland to train doctors, to repair the jaw and stuff like that, but the cool thing was, like, he asked me, if you could pray for me. so he actually prayed before the surgery and gave all of his, God, and told, God is the one who heals, and God is the one who uses his hands and stuff. I had really much peace about that. It was very, special- time, yeah, I would say.

Matt 19:46

Wow, so he

Micha 19:46

was- Yeah a

Matt 19:47

believer, a follower of Jesus.

Micha 19:48

Yeah, he was a follower of Jesus, yeah. and then still it took three months, until we could go back. I have some metal inside my jaw, so, Mm. yeah. And I was very down. like, I couldn't eat. I just could drink soup told Madeleine, let's go home. I'm finished." Allah, this is enough for me now. Was, this first half a year was very tough. So- Yeah let's go home. but then Madeleine was the one who told me, "Well, let's pray, and let's read the Bible, and let's see what Jesus tells us." So this is what we did again. So we were reading, taking time, and praying. And, God gave me another calling. He really, spoke to me, through the Bible, again, through, Revelation 21, I think. yeah, so He spoke to me, that we should go back. like, the people don't know me. The people didn't hear from me. you should go and tell them then we, went back again to this place, and we stayed for six month more there. we were really enjoying the time there. but, we were fearing a little bit the three weeks marks, because every time, like, three weeks, we had to fly out and something happened. So we're, "Oh, well, three weeks, what's gonna happen now?"

Matt 21:00

Yeah.

Micha 21:00

but yeah, we could stay for, uh, six month there. and have language lessons

Matt 21:04

Yeah. was the language you were learning Arabic?

Micha 21:08

Yes. We learned Sudanese Arabic there. Then, the couple came back, to this place. Sadly, I, broke the motorbike. was their motorbike yes. Well, I think they managed, hopefully. and then we had a time in Germany after the six months, and then we went back to another area, in South Sudan, near the Nuba Mountains, from Sudan, and we worked there for two more years, living very, very simple. Like, we had mud hut. there was no running water. We had a small electricity, small solar panels, living in a mud hut, and, a donkey cart came, with the water for us. and, yeah. this was our two years there. And the amazing stuff was, like, when you ask my wife, Madeline, she grew up in Senegal, but she's a city girl. and she told God before, "I will never go in a village in Africa." And then she was actually living in the mud hut there. Wow. And she was like, "You know, this is just by God's grace that I'm managing living here." so this is kind of what you said. You know, we are available, and God gives you the strength to just go through it.

Matt 22:18

So what were your relationships like with local people there in that location? And- were they all Muslims around you? Many, I guess- Mm refugees from Sudan, And- yeah, tell us about some of the interactions with local Muslims.

Micha 22:33

Yeah, So we were living in the refugee camp, so they were just neighbors from us. So they had the same hut like we did. we had solar panels. they didn't had that. some of them maybe had solar panels. But, like, we were actually living the same like the refugee did. so we were very close with them. And it was amazing, because this opened doors. so you go to your neighbor and ask, "Can we have your, I don't know, like, everything. Like, there was a market where, like, we had some stuff, they came to us and borrowed it from us, and we borrowed some stuff from them. so we were living together with them. We had very close relationship. it was amazing because lot of doors opened up, with the people, because a white guy living just like this, where we choose to live like this. Like, they had all these question marks of why do we do this? we can live in Germany, and why do we do this? and then we could openly share and pray for people there. yeah. there are some Christian tribes as well, so there's a mixture of Muslims and Christian tribes around, so there are some churches, as well around. but yeah, we went to the Muslims. they were our neighbors. And someday, we had all these kids on our compounds. Our kids loved that. Like, we had our second daughter there as well. yeah.

Matt 23:50

Wow. That's fascinating. Yeah, not many people live in that kind of poverty, that kind of close proximity to, Muslim neighbors, in that particular way- Yeah in a refugee camp. That's very unusual. so give us some examples of maybe Muslims who were interested in learning more about Jesus or reading the Bible. Was there much openness, or were they quite closed faith-wise?

Micha 24:12

I would say they, normally when we were at the home from people, I mean, there was more womens than mens in the camp because the mens normally go and work somewhere else. But if you would be at the home and, speaking with people, or they were, like, sick, had some problems there, we could always pray for them, share, from Jesus. sometimes they would even have dreams from Jesus. there was this one lady, she said, our son, had a dream from Jesus, but he didn't know what to do with that." so yeah, we were just sharing. sometimes there was nothing coming back, so we did, okay, we shared and this is what we did. let's see what's coming after that. but, we prayed for a lot of people, and it was very interesting because we had sometimes had the season- where we were like just surviving and say, sometimes these questions came up, "Okay, what are we doing here?" Like, okay, we praying for people, but we don't see anything. And then, what was very interesting, so after half a year, people came to us and said, "Yeah, you prayed when I couldn't get a baby, and now pregnant." And so they connected our prayer, "Well, this is a answer to your prayers." which quite encouraged us. But we were still also in a kind of language learning phase and surviving phase back then. also as a team, because we all started, so we had to figure out, our ways to survive to make our visas in the capital and stuff. So it was very much in a pioneering state, back then. And now there's a team, there's a clinic actually, and they have, there's big opportunities. it's really amazing, what's happening. Yeah. So our, hearts is still there. we love what the team is doing there.

Matt 25:56

Did you say there's a clinic there now?

Micha 25:58

Yes. There's a small clinic. like our team leaders, they are two doctors, and they built up a clinic there, and they do some project. I actually went back, like we went already to Khartoum, but I went back there and helped them to build the solar system for the clinic, because I did, for all the housings I did the solar system. So there was my mechanic stuff. I didn't do actually anything with mechanic, but with the solar systems, so with my hand I could help the team a lot.

Matt 26:28

Yeah, that's great. so what did you do the rest of the time practically?

Micha 26:33

you mean after South Sudan?

Matt 26:35

even in the camp, if you weren't doing a lot of mechanics, what was the government thinking you were- Yeah doing there?

Micha 26:41

Oh, from the government, we were openly missionaries there. So that would be very easy. Like South Sudan's very easy- country for us because we can just get the visas, and then you're fine. So we didn't have to start a business or something like that. so what we mainly did is, we were in the camp. we did language lessons, and we connected our language lessons with sharing Bible stories. so I had my language helper, and then I took a Bible story, and I learned to share the story. And I tried to share it, and he helped me. And he, helped me in his way, how he understood the story. So it's a great tool. I would say, yeah, language learning is a great tool to actually share gospel. and then we were talking about what is faith? What is, forgiveness and all of this? So we were talking about this and talking about Jesus. And just, like, going out to people, drinking coffee, drinking tea. and having just, like, relationship with the people.

Matt 27:41

Yeah, so important. So that was two years in the north of South Sudan. what caused you to move from there?

Micha 27:48

Well, Madeleine and me, we always were thinking then, we don't know how things will be, in the future with school and stuff, like, what is coming. and we always say, well, it seems like there's a open door, to Sudan and go into Sudan. so we were praying about that. And we said, well, there's not so many teams starting in Sudan yet or not so many workers yet starting there. but it looks like there's a door open so we spoke with our team leaders and told them, "Well, I think, God put on our heart to go to Sudan." and back then they had already a single lady on the team, and another couple was coming then, which would be replacing us, so we felt, okay, we can go to Sudan, and, we felt like God is calling us to Sudan and open up a team there. and we were thinking, okay, if you open up a team in Sudan, like, always needs some people to start some stuff that people then follow and come. So if other people see, oh, this is actually possible to go, more people come and start things there. Yeah. So that was one reason why we actually went to Sudan.

Matt 28:52

Yeah. And Sudan is, I think, in the top five or six countries in the world with unreached peoples. There's so many unreached peoples there. Such a need-

Micha 29:01

Yeah

Matt 29:02

and quite- Yeah tricky to get into. So yeah, it was an opportunity and you took it then.

Micha 29:07

Yes, exactly. Yeah. So then we went into Sudan I think in October 21 was, when we entered to Sudan. And actually, there was this kind of revolution in Sudan and hope was risen. Okay, the Sudanese had a lot of hope into the country. And we entered, staying in the hotel, and three days after there was this, military coup happening. and we stayed in the hotel and seeing, okay, what's going on outside. And then, like every tourist, as fast as they can, they wanted to leave the country. And Madeleine and me, we sat down and say, "Okay, let's pray. let's see what we gonna do now." we prayed and we felt, like, the peace to stay longer in the country. So we, went to the hotel and said, "Can we stay a week longer in the hotel?" And they were really like, "Oh, what? What are you guys doing? We have like two small children, and everyone wants to go out and you're asking us to stay. Of course you can stay." yeah. So we stayed for one week longer, and we see like reporters coming and Al Jazeera is coming, and everyone makes videos and interviews and stuff. And we're like, we are sitting there with our family. It was very interesting feeling. Yeah. like, after one week, things came a little bit down, so we went out to another place- we rented a flat, the Airbnb in Khartoum. we just had to figure out when is the demonstration happening because then there would be a lot of tear gas and gunshots and stuff, so we stayed in. but there was always times to go out and to discover and to see Khartoum. and then, yeah, so we took our time to discover how can we actually get a long-term visa, where do we stay, um, for long term. So yeah, we discovered a little bit for six weeks, and spoke with a university so we, went actually back to university for learning Arabic. So this is how we got our visa for the first year. So we had to go out to Egypt and then fly back in through university. and then we had our one year, visa there. back then studying high Arabic, which was terrible. but we had our visa.

Matt 31:15

The university level Arabic was very different to the street language.

Micha 31:19

Yes. You couldn't really use it. okay, what we learned much, was reading and writing. We learned this. it helped there, but, on the street, you couldn't really use it. so and we had the slang from South Sudan, so now we were in Khartoum and the Arabic is a little bit higher. Like, in South Sudan, they sometimes don't care so much about if it's a man or a woman. so in Sudan, it was much better Arabic there. Yeah. So we had to relearn this a little bit. and then we figured out, okay, we had this one year spare to prepare something for us to make a long-term visa. So we, spoke with some other missionaries in the country, and there was some people from Indonesia, there was some people from South America, and we had all the same heart. so we sat together and then actually we started a business which would prepare for us a business visa then. it took us one year to register a business. and yeah, also to combine all of these three cultures together was very interesting, was very funny.

Matt 32:24

Yeah

Micha 32:24

yeah. We started an international church with them together. so we are meeting up on Fridays. and had great fellowship together there. was very special.

Matt 32:34

That's good. So they weren't with our organization, just what we call God's team.

Micha 32:38

Yeah, yeah. So we were in God's team. Like, they're a different organization, but very close to us, I would say, so from their heart. so yeah. God's team- Mm-hmm together there.

Matt 32:48

So you went from very rural, basic, village life in a refugee camp to quite a large city, still with conflict going on around. what was the challenge of living in a big city compared to the basic village life or refugee camp life?

Micha 33:52

The living for us was very easy because we were like, okay, we have running water, we have electricity. sometimes, of course, there was like, six or 12 hours electricity cuts, but for us it was very, like, life-giving because we had so much stuff. the living was more difficult for all the other, missionaries there because they came from a different side. Yeah. For us, it was very easy. but what was very difficult for us was actually, in the refugee camp we were very close with everyone, and we could really speak with everyone, and, was very, fast, very familiar, and could be in contact with people, and you got invited to their home, and you eat with them together. and this was very different in, Khartoum. Like, Sudanese are very hospitality, I would say. but we were now in a big city, before we were, like, living among them, And now it felt like, okay, we, needed to do extra effort, to be in contact with some people. And because of time with all of this demonstration also, we choose to live in a place where there is more rich people, the more they have money, the more closed down they were. so that was kind of difficult time for us, to actually be in contact with our neighbors there. we had our challenges. but we found them. So I went to gym, found their natural, Sudanese contacts, which was great. but they needed extra effort from us to be in contact with, our Sudanese neighbors.

Matt 35:21

Would you say they're very proud of being Muslim in Sudan in the context you experienced, or did they have any interest- No in reading the Bible or questioning their own traditions and history?

Micha 35:33

probably it depends on which tribe So there are some tribes who are very proud, that they are Muslim, there's, Arab tribes who are very proud of themselves, and then there's the, other Sudanese tribes who are darker, and they probably come from the more African side. I would say they are, more open, for the gospel or to pray and to speak about that, and not so prideful. sometimes they also didn't care about, all of this. Like they did what they have to do, like Ramadan and all of this stuff, but beside that, they didn't care.

Matt 36:05

Did you see much, traditional African religious practices? did you see witchcraft or lots of folk Islamic practices as well?

Micha 36:16

I would say it's, definitely very much there. Like it depends on how open you're looking, for this stuff. in South Sudan, in the camps you see it much more openly. like people will go to the witch doctor. That's normal. and in Khartoum, because it's a big city, it's not that visible, but still people are, like it's very obvious that there is witchcraft happening and that people are very open to that, especially womens, there's a big, thing. Yeah.

Matt 36:45

Yeah. Did it impact how you shared the gospel? When you're talking to people, did you use a lot of storytelling or parables of Jesus, or just using the miracle examples in scripture, more than in a Western context where you might be talking more theologically around guilt and innocence?

Micha 37:01

yeah. I mean, did pray probably more for people, and try really to, okay, let's pray, and pray for healing, that they have this power encounter, I would say. because, like, this is what they, need to see. okay, there is a power who's actually, more powerful than their witchcraft and stuff like that.

Matt 37:22

makes sense. Yeah, so continue with your story. You're now in another country. Mm. So what happened?

Micha 37:29

so, we were in Khartoum, then our teammates came. So we had another, single guys from Hungaria. and there was another couple with us. So they were on our team. They just arrived, through our business visas and stuff. And then actually, Madeleine got the diagnosis in November that she has breast cancer. So- Oh, yeah yeah. So that was kind of a challenge for us again. so we, actually left our team behind in Khartoum, and we went to Germany. but we still kept our whole flat and our belongings we left there, and we're saying, "We have to focus. We will go back. we wanted to stay in Khartoum for the next 10, 20 years. Like, this was our vision. we want to stay here. Like, we bought everything. we had our whole flat was finally finished, and then we had to fly out, because of breast cancer for my wife. So we fled out, and we were still team leaders from our team, so we were in contact with them. And Madeleine got her treatment, and, really had the vision to go back. After the treatment, we would go back to Khartoum. And then there was, April coming. I was actually visiting the team in March, looking how they are doing, and I told them already back then, I have the feeling of- there's more military stuff coming and so be sure that you have enough food reserved at home if there's something happening, that you can stay home for two weeks or so. So I told them, and then I flew out, and then soon after the whole thing explode and the war started in Khartoum. that was a tough time, also for us, like seeing our team in Khartoum, having phone calls every day, how they are doing. And we as team leaders, we couldn't help them. it was very difficult, like in a different sense, you know? because we wanted to take care of them, but Was very difficult for us as team leaders as well. But we prayed a lot, and then it took almost one week on, after they actually came then to Germany. so they did a debriefing. We did debriefing together as a team, and then they stayed a little bit longer, did debriefing. we were still in, the treatment for Madeleine for the breast cancer. and then there was this big question, okay, how long will this war be? can we go back to Sudan? our belongings are still there. So, even if we, took much more than our team, but we left lot of things there. And the kids, had toys and stuff, and they were like, "Oh, I'm missing this." And we told them, "Well, this is in Sudan, and we can't go back to Sudan." so it was a quite tough time, and we were thinking, "Okay, what are we gonna do now?" so we had the summer, and we were thinking, "Okay, treatment is almost finished, for Madeleine, and she's doing great." she still had to take some strong medication, but we didn't have the vision to stay Germany, so we wanted to go back. and we wanted to go work under Sudanese. and we still had the feeling, to help getting people ready, for working for Sudan. and then we entered, to, our country now, where we're working again under Sudanese refugees. so we entered here in December 22, or '23. working again under a Sudanese refugee. and this is how we entered up in our third country. Now again, our kids still missing Sudan. like our daughter, went there to school. so she had some friends there. And now our daughter is doing online school. because in this country she can't go to the school here where we are right now, but she's doing online school, which is great for her. She loves it. and we are working under our refugees, Sudanese refugees. And it's great. It's very amazing, sometimes, you knew what's happening, the war is terrible, and we lost so much stuff and have to forgive also our landlords 'cause they probably took some stuff from us. But then we see now the people who are the refugees here is actually the people who are the more richer people from Sudan. and they are quite open now. these the people we would never be Khartoum together, because they would have too much money for us there. Mm. And they would be upper class But now they are here and A lot of them lost everything. so now we are sitting with them together, drinking tea and sharing the Bible, praying for them, helping them, starting businesses, and stuff. and yeah, God has just opened up doors there as well, which is amazing.

Matt 42:07

Yeah, and because of your many experiences of being relocated and pushed out and losing everything, then you have that heart connection with them. They trust you more- Yes because you understand them a little bit more-

Micha 42:20

Yeah

Matt 42:21

than-

Micha 42:21

Yeah

Matt 42:22

most of us who'd, who've never been through anything like that.

Micha 42:25

Yeah. If I'm on the street and I'm just open my mouth and I speak Sudanese Arabic, they have already this smile. And then I tell them, "Well, we were Khartoum," and then you have the heart connection immediately. And then we also lost our belongings there. we kind of the same like them. I mean, we have now a lot of things again, but, that we can really much connect with them. Mm. and yeah, so there's a lot of heart connection together with them, which is very nice. and we can, pray for them and see people, get healed.

Matt 42:58

Wow. Yeah, do you have any more personal stories, anecdotes of individuals that God's been at work in?

Micha 43:05

as we were here, in this country now, me and Madeline were praying, oh, who we should invest in. Like, for, the Sudanese, there's so much need. so we were praying, and God just connected us with different Sudanese, families. And especially Madeline has a lot of opportunities to go to the wives home and pray for them and reads in the Bible with them. And there's this one lady, she lost her man, and she has two kids, like two sons. and we helped her, and Madeline shared her the story, and two weeks ago she told Madeline, "Well, I see how God is taking care of me," and she really opens up. And we see, like, how God is, looking for her, which is very nice to see. and also, like how she's opened up to the gospel. Mm. And then I have a close friendship, the man, I took, like one year, with him. I, did some language lessons with him, again. then we just talk about the trauma he went through, actually. So we did kind of trauma healing, which, we didn't call it trauma healing. We were just sitting there and drinking coffee together, and then he was just speaking through all what he was going through. And it's crazy when you have, like a 50-year-old man but suddenly he's crying in front of you. I was like, "Well, I'm a mechanic. Normally I have nothing to do this." But yeah, Jesus somehow, gave me wisdom and to take care of this man and to pray for him- and now I saw him, like, from always looking down, and no hope his country to, yeah, build him up, and he has now hope for his country. He's actually now, back in Khartoum and working there. Still praying for him that he really, gets to know Jesus more in the depth. But, it's just like, family fo- example, they really see us as a blessing. So they enter, they go, "Your feets are bringing blessing to our homes." I feel like, wow, if they would really understand this deep truth, that we're actually bringing blessing, that we're actually bringing, this Jesus to their home. we're still praying for them. But then we hear from other, Sudanese around us, who are with other missionaries together. And actually we see there's a ministry, where people when they are sick, they're coming there and they get prayed for, and they get healed, and then they start reading in the Bible. and there are already some people who got baptized. So we see some Sudanese coming to Jesus starting home churches, which is amazing.

Matt 45:33

Yeah. That's great. That's encouraging. And we never know the role that we have to play. you have so many- Yes interactions every day. 10, 15, 20 interactions, different people, and, yeah, it just moves them forward a little bit closer to Christ. And they meet- Yeah somebody else and have another conversation. So, yeah, it's all part of the story for hundreds of people. Wow. Yeah. as we draw to a close, I mean, you had to think a lot about the theology of suffering. I imagine with all the changes you've gone through over many years, even with two young kids, you've had to think about the theology of transition and change and being temporary living on this earth. not having the stability that so many people look for in the West. You know, they want a stable career and a stable job- Mm-hmm stable house, stable school for their children. Do you have any thoughts around that? and after that, maybe just, yeah, any final stories you'd like to share with us? Just funny, crazy things in the culture or just some kind of encouragement for our listeners.

Micha 46:31

I guess for us it's always be a challenge, Even now, me and Madeleine, we are speaking about that and saying, well, you know, we want to be ready for Jesus, wherever he puts us, to go there. and we try to make, stability for our family, like for our kids, where we are as fast as we can. But also we don't want to hold on this place. we would love to go back one day to Sudan. Like, our hope is to go back. hopefully this year someday for a visit or so. this is my prayer. and Madeleine is always like, "We don't have to make it us to comfort here, though. Like, if it's too nice here, we don't go want to go back anyway." So we try to be in this balance to, okay, we will be ready if God pulls us out, to go again, and go with the Sudan. there was also a missionary who once told us, that if you're working under Sudanese, you have to be ready to bounce, this side and this side and this side. So just to be ready to bounce with them. so I think this is, what we try to be. Like, we want to be ready on the move again and be with the Sudanese.

Matt 47:37

it's like a nomadic lifestyle, a pilgrim lifestyle.

Micha 47:40

Yes. And I guess it's coming back to the calling like how I got, the calling to go overseas. There was this, one prayer I had. was like ticking up the rights I have, like all the things I think I believe I have to right for. So wrote down, I have to right for a car, I have to right for a house. because I want a house, I want a family, I want kids. so all of these rights, I actually gave up to God. So there was a deep prayer. I, I was crying. Like I wrote it down and I was crying when I was writing it down, but I gave it to God. I say, "Well, you know, God, this is not my right. belongs all to you." And- I'm here for Jesus, Like, where does he call us? What does He wants from us? And we want to give it to Him.

Matt 48:26

That's really powerful. I think that's a good challenge for all of us, actually. just to go away and say, "Well, yeah, what am I clinging to, and why am I holding it so tight? Am I willing to put it back on the altar- Mm put it back before Jesus and say, 'These are gifts, and if You want them to be temporary, yeah, help me be mobile if I need to be mobile, ready to go again at Your calling.'" Yeah, 'cause everything is temporary- Mm here. We are strangers on this earth. Foreigners and strangers- Yes the scriptures say, don't they, in- Mm I think Hebrews. Yeah. Well, thank you. That's a good challenge. Any final interesting story, challenging story, language learning, bugs,

Micha 49:03

I give you a funny story. So when I was at the beginning of my language learning, We were invited to a wedding, and then they had this drink there. and they offered me to drink something, and I told him, A little bit." and then they gave me a little bit, and then I want to say, "Okay, this is enough. This is enough." But I told them in Arabic, "More, more, more." So they were keep on giving. Like, I had a full cup. I said, "More, more, more." And then people were laughing at me because they understood how I did, but I said the wrong word. So- That's good but I learned the word then. this is the word I never, will miss again.

Matt 49:42

That's good. Khalas, yeah.

Micha 49:44

Yeah. Khalas, khalas. But I said, "Lisa, lisa, lisa." So- Oh, that's

Matt 49:49

good

Micha 49:50

yeah.

Matt 49:51

Yeah, we all make those mistakes early on.

Micha 49:53

Yes.

Matt 49:54

Good. Yeah, you have to be able to laugh at yourself, don't you, as well? 'Cause there, there are some things that are very deep and serious and traumatic, but you have to enjoy the light moments and the funny moments- Yes too.

Micha 50:04

Yes.

Matt 50:04

Very important.

Micha 50:05

Exactly. Yes.

Matt 50:07

Good. Brother, thank you so much. It's been really good to hear some of your stories. And yeah, may the Lord continue to bless you and use you amongst the Sudanese, the refugees there, as you continue to daily sacrifice yourselves and your dreams- Mm and your rights, put them on the altar for Jesus. And we pray you'll see much fruit- We know the fruit will come, we're promised that, but we don't know if we'll see it. And I just pray that you will see some of it, and that you'll be able to- Amen rejoice Yeah, amongst the people that you're living with.

Micha 50:36

Amen.

Matt 50:37

Thanks for being with us. All right. God bless and bye-bye.

Speaker 50:41

Thanks for joining us today, guys. Do get in touch if you want to share how God is speaking to you through the podcast, or if you want to partner with us in raising up more workers for the harvest. The easiest way to do that is to go to the show notes of any episode and click on Support The Show, where you can become a regular partner by giving even just a few dollars a month. That would be a great encouragement to us here. You can also email me personally, matt@frontiers.org.uk. And let's finish with these powerful lyrics from Rend Collective song, The Cost. I don't need safety as much as I need you. You're dangerous, but Lord, you're beautiful. I'll chase you through the pain. I'll carry my cross 'cause real love is not afraid to bleed Have a great week, and do join us next time to hear from more ordinary people serving our extraordinary God in some of the toughest parts of the world