Losing My Religion (ft. ex Muslim, John Ghanim)

In this episode Matt hears the testimony of a well-known ex-Muslim from Yemen, called John Ghanim (aka Yemeni John). 

John came to faith in Jesus as a refugee in Greece a decade ago, but he had already abandoned Islam years earlier while walking around the Kaaba in Mecca, Islam’s holiest place.

John is full of infectious joy and he’s a passionate evangelist who loves to share the good news of the God who offers us so much more than mere religion. He has lost much. He has regular threats on his life and a Fatwa declared against him for apostasy. But he has gained Christ and as he loves to say, there’s “no turning back!”

For more on John’s ministry or to support his work, do check out his website and socials here:

https://johnghanim.com/

www.youtube.com/@johnghanim0

https://www.instagram.com/johnghanim/

Transcript

John 0:01

Because I was going to the church and I used to take so many people with me to the Bible study and many people came to Christ, I evangelize to anybody. So they, called me that I take Muslims to Christianity. So people, they stopped eating with me and, I was very isolated And, they threatened me, they wanted to kill me.

0:24

Hi guys, welcome back to Raw Mission. as you'll know if you're a regular listener, as well as hearing the stories of those who work among Muslims all over the world, we sometimes invite guests onto the show who've grown up Muslim, but who've chosen to follow Jesus. And so today, I'm delighted to have a dear brother from Yemen called John Ghanim joining me in person to share his story of coming to Christ. John grew up in a very conservative Muslim family in Yemen, but it was in his teens whilst on pilgrimage to Mecca that he decided to abandon Islam, considering it to be a man-made religion. Now many years later, as a refugee in Greece, he found the one his soul had always longed for, the true and living God, the Savior Jesus. And threats and rejection followed, and he's lost so much, but his infectious joy remains, and he lives today as a passionate evangelist, particularly through social media, where he's influencing hundreds of thousands of people across the Middle East.

Matt 1:22

Well, it's an absolute joy today to have a guest in the studio with me here who's quite well known. if you follow Islam online and some of the apologetics material that you see, I've got Brother John with me. And, John Ghanim is his full name, sometimes known as Yemeni John. Is that right? Yes. John Ghanim Yemeni John,

John 1:42

yeah. I belong to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matt 1:45

Amen. Yes. Well, you're very welcome, brother. Yes. It's good to have you in person with us today.

John 1:50

Thank you so much for having me. Of course.

Matt 1:52

Let's start with. Your childhood story, tell us about where you grew up and what that was like for you.

John 1:59

So I was born and raised into a devoted Muslim family. I grew up in a small village in Yemen, surrounded by mountains, beautiful village. it's not easy to drive to the village, have to go through the mountain and it's risky to get to the village as well. that's how I grow up. my grandfather, he's a farmer, so he taught me how to, look after the sheep, after the animals. my grandmother, she has cows and, every morning she, will give us milk. so we will have fresh milk, wow. As a family. we eat breakfast together and eat lunch together. And, Dinner together as a family. Yeah. I came from strong conservative society and, that's how I grew up. lots

Matt 2:48

of brothers and sisters.

John 2:49

Yes. I have four sisters and two brothers. one brother, was born after I left Yemen. I heard about my mother. She gave birth after she was 50. This is

Matt 3:03

50?

John 3:03

Yes.

Matt 3:04

Wow.

John 3:04

This is sound crazy, but yeah. It's happened.

Matt 3:07

Yeah. How old was she when her first child was born?

John 3:10

I am the, first. You're the el I'm the eldest, yeah.

Matt 3:13

Yeah. Do you know how old your mother was when you were born?

John 3:16

Oh, I think she was maybe 18 or something like that. Yeah. Because she was married when she was, 16 years old.

Matt 3:23

Okay. And all your brothers and sisters from the same mother and father?

John 3:27

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. my father married to one wife, only one

Matt 3:31

wife.

John 3:31

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt 3:33

Great. So you grew up in the village. In the mountains, in

John 3:36

there is a famous thing about Yemenis. They called us. the children of the mountains.

Matt 3:42

Wow. Children of the mountains. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. we think of the Arab world and the Gulf. We don't always think about mountains. We think about deserts,

John 3:49

Yes. Yeah. In Yemen, actually, we have mixture. We have desert, we have mountains, we have, the sea, you know, the coast. big one. yeah, Yemeni is a beautiful country. We have four seasons. Yemeni people, they are very generous. but they are very Yemen. They are very traditional mindset. they are proud in their identity as a Yemeni, they used to call it the ancient Yemen. It was the big Yemen, Yemen, Albi, the big Yemen. So Yemen, it was a big country. Now if you ask Iraqis, where is your tribe came from? They will say from Yemen. If you ask Lebanese, where is your tribe came from, they will say from Yemen. Wow. If you ask, Egyptian, some of the Egyptians, they will say, ah, we have, a Yemeni, roots or something like that. And the Syrian Jordanian. Palestinian. so this is how they used to create the big Yemen, you know, Yemen. And even in the Bible, the Queen Sheba came from Yemen.

Matt 4:47

Oh, really?

John 4:47

Yes, yes.

Matt 4:49

Oh, that's

John 4:49

interesting. So I am from the land of Queen Sheba.

Matt 4:52

Nice. Ah, that's great. So your family, I'm assuming they were Muslim, all of your family members? Yes. Yemen has what, 99% Muslim or more? Yes,

John 5:02

my family, they are very devoted. Muslim, they're Shiri. my mother actually, she Koran every day. she's very committed to prayers. My father, he wasn't religious, but, in somehow, he become religious, in Yemen or in my family, if you are not religious for the first, 20 years, 25 years, 30 years after that, you need to, come, back to Islam. Get more serious. Yeah. Be serious. Yeah. But for me, I grew up as a serious Muslim. because I loved Islam, Islam was my identity, Islam was everything in my life. I studied in three different school. So in, the school, they will teach us, IC studies, Islamic studies, and you have to memorize, Quran by heart. And, every time, the teacher will, ask the students to, recite Koran in front of everybody. And sometimes if I don't memorize, I will be beaten for that. Really? And it's like sometimes it will be ashamed of myself Because I didn't do good, you know? So I will force myself to, memorize. So next time I will be, you know, proud Muslim.

Matt 6:10

Yeah. Did all your family members, all your brothers and sisters have to learn Quran or were you

John 6:14

chosen? Everybody? Everybody, like the majority of, people in my village, they have to, and it's part of Islam, it's, when you pray five times a day, during your prayers, you have to quit. Verses or scripture or in Arabic. So you have to quote that by heart. So during your prayers, so you have to repeat the prayers every day. So you have to have that, mentality.

Matt 6:40

So you grew up with this confidence, this happiness with being a true Muslim in a true Muslim country and Had you ever met a Christian in your childhood?

John 6:50

No, I never met any Christian in Yemen or any other people from other faith or other religion? all people around me was Muslim.

Matt 6:59

Yeah.

John 7:00

So I never, learned about Christianity because we don't have churches, we don't have, synagogues or temples or we don't have that. We have mosques.

Matt 7:09

Yeah. Shia and Sunni mosques. So you must have heard about Christians though through maybe TV or something. What did you think

John 7:17

I heard about, Christ? in Islam, they call him isa. so I never heard about the biblical, Christ in Yemen. I never heard about that. So we have the bad view about Christianity from TV maybe. And, yeah, we always say they are infidels. And they will go to hell. And so that's the only understanding I have.

Matt 7:38

Yeah. Because they believe in three gods,

John 7:40

three gods, those

Matt 7:41

kind of things.

John 7:42

Not only that, because when I used to read Koran, you know, it says if you believe that, Christ is God, you will go to hell. it's very obvious in the Koran,

Matt 7:52

Yeah.

John 7:52

So I grew up in that mentality. Yeah. I follow Allah and the Islamic traditions and, the Islamic rituals. And I was very devoted about that. So I tried to do good, charity, be good Muslim. that's how I grew up. That's how I tried very hard.

Matt 8:11

Yeah. it is a faith where what you do is very important,

John 8:14

yeah. Because in Islam it's about how you earn your salvation, how the more you do, the more you might be saved. is no assurance.

Matt 8:23

No assurance.

John 8:24

No, no, no,

Matt 8:25

no. Yeah. So if somebody had asked you when you were maybe 10 years old, 15 years old, will you be in paradise? Can you. Know that? No. What would you say?

John 8:37

No, I was asking about that myself because if you ask the best Muslim leader in the world, he will answer the same. I don't know. We don't know if you ask even Mohamed himself, he said in Koran, I don't know if I will go to heaven or not. That's right. So, nobody know in Islamic faith. in the entire Islam that they will go to heaven. Nobody knows.

Matt 9:01

Did that make you fearful or worried?

John 9:03

Yes. Yes, of course. This is why we are praying every day. We used to pray every day, and every Muslim Now, if they are really devoted, they will do more to earn their salvation. I remember when I missed my, morning prayer, you know, because, the five prayers, one of them, it's in the morning, like at four 50 or five in, in the morning. Nice. Yes. So you have to wake up and wash your body, you know, wa you know, we wash your parts and to be holy to face Allah. So you pray. And sometimes I used to miss that prayer in the morning because especially in winter, it's cold. Mm-hmm. And, we don't have hot water in, in my village or even in the university where I used to study, we don't have hot water. So sometimes I miss that, but that will be like a miserable day. I will think all my day. Yeah. Allah will punish me. I'll go to hell because I miss that prayer. So I will leave under fear.

Matt 10:04

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's really interesting. You feel guilty about that? Yes. I'm not sure what will happen to you.

John 10:11

You miss something. You will be punished for it.

Matt 10:14

Yeah. And I guess if you are beaten for forgetting. Your surah and your memorization, then you think that maybe God will be the same punishing people who do wrong, who forget his laws or don't practice everything

John 10:27

because it's obligation. It's not like an optional, you have to pray. And if you miss prayer, it's something serious.

Matt 10:34

Okay, so what began to change?

John 10:37

basically 2000 and, 12, I was married to my cousin. It was arranged married by the family. They choose her for me. because this is the way, this is the culture. So I decided to marry her. And, I have two daughters from her, when I finished my high school straight away I was married.

Matt 10:57

Okay, so you were 18 years old?

John 10:59

I was 18 years old, basically. And, she was older than me, five years older than me. Mm-hmm. And that's not usual, but my situation was different. So then after I was married, I, straight away I went to study business as administration, at university. In Yemen, most of my people in Yemen, especially in my village, they go to Saudi for work. When they turn 17, 18, boom, they go to Saudi Arabia. this is why there is lack of education in Yemen. So people, they don't finish their schools or their university.

Matt 11:34

Mm-hmm.

John 11:34

Because they're hardworking, they want to work, build the house, get married, start a family. That's it. That's the mentality. but for me it was unusual, with few people in the village. We decided to go to the university. And I went to the university, first year, second year. I was devoted Muslim that time. And we pray in the, we have a flat student, flat, we are more than 15 students in three rooms. Mm-hmm. This is the way. and we, are committed to pray. but I start, you know, beginning of 2014, I start to ask if this prayer will save me, if this, the Islamic, rituals will save me. And I start really asking the big questions, the deep questions. Where Isla, I don't feel him. Mm. And every time I pray, I feel heavy on my shoulder. Because I don't feel that I have a straight connection with Allah, a spiritual connection with Allah. I feel always, he's far from me. I don't know him. I don't know how to communicate with him because the prayer is the same every day. So that's when I start to really doubts about, Islamic faith. so anyway, I start to ask the leaders and the imams about these doubts about how I can be close to Allah, because I feel far, feel so far from him. And, we are not, sure if we will go to heaven, but. That's, everybody knows about this in Islam, but my questions were beyond that. Like, I want to know him. I want to know who he is. I want to have a relationship with him, talk to him. I want to feel him in my life. Feel his peace, And when I start to ask the Imams and, they told me this is from Shean, from Satan.

Matt 13:24

Really?

John 13:25

this is not allowed, you know, don't question about Allah, and they quote verse from Koran la and don't ask about anything. It'll be bad for you. So actually they shut me down. Wow. And they told me, you have to follow, you have to do all the Islamic obligation, the Islamic rituals. So. It was so hard for me because I have to submit submission. Islam means submission. You submit.

Matt 13:51

True.

John 13:51

It was very hard for me, because I couldn't get answers, but in the same time, I have to submit. There is no other way.

Matt 13:59

Yeah.

John 14:00

I have to submit. So my father, he was in Saudi Arabia and, my mother was in Yemen, so he invited her to visit him and he will take her to CCA

Matt 14:11

the

John 14:11

most To

Matt 14:11

be the hedge or

John 14:12

something. Yeah. Hamra to visit the most holiest place of Islam. The heart of Islam. The capital of Islam. But as a woman, she can't travel by herself. She need a guardian. Yes. So they asked me to be a guardian to my mother. And I said, yes. If I go with her, it'll be great opportunity. And I find answers to my questions. And I was 20 years old that time, 2014. I took her with me, take my grandmother as well, her mother. We went all the way to Saudi Arabia and, many members from the family, cousins, uncles, they came and all of us we went to Mecca.

Matt 14:50

You must have felt very proud.

John 14:52

Yes. I was so excited.

Matt 14:54

Pinnacle of being a Muslim is to visit the holy

John 14:56

center. Yes. to visit when you are 20 years old, it's such an honor.

Matt 15:00

That's true.

John 15:01

True. Most

Matt 15:02

would wait all their lives

John 15:03

and save money.

Matt 15:04

Maybe go in their sixties

John 15:06

or seventies maybe, or sometimes it's so difficult. We ended up in Mecca. We dress the Islamic dress. Mm-hmm. Which is all white. White, yes. Yeah. And, my uncle, he's a leader, so he lead us. So he has a book, he instructions how to do, how to follow him. I was really close to him. Mm-hmm. At the same time, you have to protect the woman. we put them in the middle and as a man, we did like a circle around them.

Matt 15:32

Mm-hmm.

John 15:32

So we walk so people will not touch them.

Matt 15:34

Yeah, exactly.

John 15:36

but I was close to my uncle because I want to hear everything. I was excited. okay, this is the time I might, feel the peace of Allah or he's touching my heart in my soul. this is

Matt 15:49

at the kaba now

John 15:49

at the ka in the heart of, kaba us. And we have to do seven times. Mm-hmm. You know, to circle seven times around the house of Allah, with billion of Muslims. But nothing happened. And I was, Looking around, nothing happened. It was so difficult for me because I had a lot of expectation, but, I felt like, I don't belong there. I felt this is not for me. I had that realization. This is manmade because I felt like we are going around the house, a Blackstone or a black box.

Matt 16:23

Mm-hmm.

John 16:24

And I said, this is not for me. Like I told myself, not loud because I can't say it in Mecca, but I told myself, I don't belong here.

Matt 16:32

Mm.

John 16:33

I don't get the relation with Allah. I don't feel him. This is idolatry.

Matt 16:38

Mm-hmm.

John 16:39

this is not from God. If there is God, this is not from him. Obviously, it's not from God. But in the same time, to have this doubts and to have this realization. Make me more fearful because I told you I was really think that Islam was my everything in my life, but suddenly that's gone

Matt 16:58

and what's left? Nothing.

John 17:00

Nothing. It was so difficult, so hard. what I'm doing here. What is my purpose? I start doubt about my real identity. Like who I am. What is my purpose on this earth. Why I am exist? You know, these big questions. And that's really struggle for me because, as you said, I couldn't tell my parents or my friends or my, family, or even the leader, you know, my uncle, I couldn't tell him. And that was so much pain. Mm. that was, oh my, it was very dark time for me. So when we finish all the rituals, we went to Medina, visit the grave of Muhammad. I was like a ghost, you know, walking. I know what I'm doing. And I went back to Yemen. My friends received me, my neighbors, they looked at me as a holy man. Yeah. We call it in Arabic. Haj. A Haji a ha. Yeah. Haji. Yeah. Its like, holy man. Like a very religious man. Because every Muslim dream, at least once in their lifetime to go to that place. So they looked at me as a big deal. Mm-hmm. I was 20 years old, but actually I was empty from inside. I was sad. I was broken. lots of questions, lots of doubts, lots of fear. Where are you God? are you there? How to reach you? How to get to you, how to know you. And I don't have answers, so I called myself maybe agnostic.

Matt 18:27

Mm-hmm.

John 18:28

If that's correct. But I had to pretend that I was Muslim, so I have to pray, I have to fast, I have to do everything in Islam in front of my community. In front of my family, in front of my wife, in front of my mother, I go to the mosque. I fast Ramadan, so I did that from 2014 till 2017.

Matt 18:51

Wow. Three years.

John 18:52

Three years. Yeah. What do

Matt 18:53

you think would've happened if you had. Told people or stopped practicing Islam in that culture. Had you ever met other people who had done that and just told people, I'm not interested?

John 19:06

No, no, no. It's, it's so hard. you will be persecuted. they will kill you, take you to prison, or they will, call you crazy. We had someone from the village. he was well educated. He finished his university and he start to have this and he launched his own website and he start to criticize, in indirect way Islam. Mm-hmm. So they labeled him as a crazy man. Then he become crazy. He killed himself because he was left by the society, by his family, by his friends. Everybody hated him. So what he did, he killed himself. Oh,

Matt 20:30

so sad. So this is the fear in the back of your mind.

John 20:33

I didn't have the courage. I was really co

Matt 20:35

No, of course.

John 20:36

It's hard. I was really covered, you know?

Matt 20:37

Yeah.

John 20:38

I never thought I even to speak with even my best friend. I never thought about it. Because there is fear. Yeah. I was, really, in fear.

Matt 20:47

Yeah. We can't understand that cultural pressure here in the west because we have freedom of thought, freedom of education, freedom to discuss and argue with each other, at least compared to some societies. So I think it's very hard for us to understand that. Yeah, I'm sure we would be the same in your culture.

John 21:04

Even, even like we have someone, from other village, he, converted from Shiri to Sunni. He was disowned by his family. they take his wife, his kids, and his father paid a lot of money to, kill him.

Matt 21:19

Wow.

John 21:20

it's so difficult. So I don't know how to describe it, but it's very dark time.

Matt 21:26

Okay. So that was three years.

John 21:27

The hardest, difficult time in my life.

Matt 21:31

What happened next?

John 21:32

So yeah, I never thought that I would look into Christianity because I already been brainwashed that Christianity is not the truth. I wasn't looking for religion. I start to look actually for, the evolution, you know? Mm-hmm. the evolution theory.

Matt 21:50

Mm-hmm. And atheism.

John 21:52

Atheism. But it didn't make any sense to me. because in deep in my heart, deep in my, so there is a it tells me that there is God, there is at least a creator, a designer behind this world. but how to reach this creator, I don't know.

Matt 22:09

So how did you. Continue on that journey of discovery.

John 22:14

I have a family in the US and, my auntie, she's married to someone from the family, a distant, cousin to her, he's a Yemeni American.

Matt 22:23

Mm-hmm.

John 22:23

So he invited her to go to the US and she need to go to another country to get her visa so she can join him in the us. But for her, she need a guardian. Madam,

Matt 22:35

that's you again,

John 22:37

my family. Yeah. Choose me. They trusted me. And I've been, Chosen to be a guardian to her, and that was close to her as well. so I took her with me to Djibouti. it was a journey. It wasn't easy because that time, it was war between, you know, the Gulf countries and, Houthis. and, all the airline stopped. So you have for as a Yemeni, if you want to travel outside of Yemen, you have to go through the sea.

Matt 23:01

Yeah.

John 23:02

So we went to Djibouti by small boat.

Matt 23:04

Wow.

John 23:05

Yeah, it was really difficult. Very expensive. Dangerous. so we ended up in Djibouti, very expensive. Ended up in Djibouti. and after six weeks he got her visa and, her husband came from the US to get her, you know. I finished my responsibility. They paid me, you know, as a blessing, as a gift, some money. So I decided in my heart, I actually, I didn't tell them that I am ex-Muslim. I told them I wanna start a new life, but in my heart, I don't want to go back to Yemen anymore.

Matt 23:35

Oh, I see. This is your chance to escape.

John 23:37

This is my chance. Even I told my, wife that time, I told her, I, I will go to find a new life when I am settled in a new country. I will get you. So that's the promise. Yeah. Even she doesn't know it was a difficult decision for me. So then, I traveled, you know, to Qatar, Malaysia. I stayed in Malaysia for three months as a tour visa. I start to look if I can find a working visa. I couldn't, so I have to leave the country. I went to Singapore, back to Malaysia. They extended for three months. it was so hard for me. Mm-hmm. I tried to apply for, visas to Europe. To Canada. Mm-hmm. Because the US was, yeah. By the Trump administration. They blocked Yemenis.

Matt 24:23

Yes.

John 24:23

And, so I tried to apply for European visas, but as a Yemeni, they don't even welcome you into the embassy. You meet the security? What is your nationality? Yemeni, uh.

Matt 24:34

Really

John 24:34

don't try. So it was so difficult for me, so I felt like all the doors shut down in front of my face. So I was really like, I don't know what to do. So that's when I heard about, Syrian traveling from Syria to Turkey, from Turkey to Europe. So that's the only option I have. I wanted to go back to Middle East to Arabic countries such as Egypt, Oman Jordan. I went to their embassies to ask them for a visa they didn't give me. They make it very harder for Yemenis. So even I couldn't go back to middle list. So it was so hard for me. when I saw these people traveling from Syria to Turkey. From Turkey to Greece. So, that's the only option I had in front of me.

Matt 25:20

Yeah. So you had to pay some people smugglers.

John 25:23

So I have to Yeah. Find way. I was, traveled from Iran through the border to Turkey, and I was stopped or arrested a few times. Mm-hmm. Was beaten by the Turkish police. And, it was so difficult because I was trying with many people, for all day and all night. We had no food, no water. I couldn't even hold my backpack. So I throw my stuff.

Matt 25:51

cause you're so weak.

John 25:52

So weak, so tired. I can't, you know, I can't stand. Wow. I need water.

Matt 25:57

Wow.

John 25:57

it was so difficult. but, at the end we managed to, from 60 people, only three people, managed to escape into Turkey. From 60 people. And I was one of the three.

Matt 26:08

Wow.

John 26:08

Yes.

Matt 26:09

And then you had to cross Turkey and get to

John 26:11

Greece. And I went to the first city in Turkey. Then all we bought tickets, by bus all the way to Ankara. From Ankara to Stanbul. And from Stanbul to Mir. From Mir. A small boat To Greece.

Matt 26:28

Wow. And then you found a refugee camp there and claimed

John 26:31

asylum knit ab Yes. I, uh, as a Yemeni I claimed asylum. They give asylum that time. It was very easy because of the war in Yemen, Yemenis, they give them quickly asylum. So I received my asylum, but for myself as a new life started in Europe, I met someone from Syria in the camp, and we became friends. He was my neighbor, you know, his tint, you know, it was like a tint. Yeah. and, because I was homeless even.

Matt 27:00

Yeah.

John 27:00

Because in that camp, it was like a military camp. So they give, priorities for families who has kids and For women, but as a man, you deal with yourself. So we have to build our own tent. And, it was, I think it shaped me, when I look back, it's make me more stronger. Yeah. More responsible for myself. but anyway, in that camp, I met someone from Syria and, we became friends. I noticed that he has a tattoo in his hand. And when I saw the tattoo as a Yemeni mm-hmm. I told him, why you have this tattoo in your hand? He say, this is the cross of his al Yeshu, the Messiah, the savior of the world. And that was first time in my life to hear about the savior of the world. I start to ask a lot of questions. What do you mean? How, so he started to talk about Jesus Christ was beautiful conversation between us. I didn't understand everything. So he saw me that I was interested and he said, would you like to come to the Bible study? I said, yes. I have nothing to lose. Let's go discover.

Matt 28:04

Nothing to lose and nothing to do.

John 28:06

Yeah.

Matt 28:06

Sitting in the camp.

John 28:07

So I went to that Bible study, with a German missionary. They rent like a coffee shop and it was like a family. And they have a guitar and they welcome us, give us cookies, coffee, tea, and we get to know each other. They start to worship, to sing a songs. I was looking, you know, observing what they are doing. And they start after that, the Bible study, they start to teach from the New Testament. I didn't understand everything. it was new to me, everything. But when they said Jesus Christ is the son of God, I said, I have a question here. So I start to ask like how God can have a son. I told them I'm an ex-Muslim, by the way. I'm not Muslim anymore, but still, you know, I have this question how God can have a son. I want to know him. I am desperate to know him. Mm-hmm. I've been looking for him for many years. Where is he? How to reach him. Mm-hmm. So they try to, you know, explain to me, I didn't speak English at that time through translation. And, so it wasn't easy. So they looked at me and they, tried to explain in nice way, but I didn't get it. So they say, would you like to come to the church on Sunday? I say, yes. Mm-hmm. So I took that decision to go to the church with them for the first time in my life. So. That following Sunday, I went to that church. I remember I entered through the door, it was Sunday morning, and I saw man and woman praising the Lord, worshiping the God of Christianity, the God of the Bible, dancing, some of them crying their eyes, their eyes closed. And I was looking from the back, what these crazy people doing that I was telling myself.

Matt 29:51

Yeah.

John 29:52

but I felt so jealous inside of my heart. I told myself, it must be a divine, sacred power in this place to inspire them to give them this confidence, this shalam, this peace, this connection with their God. Mm-hmm. Why? I don't have it. Why? Wow. I've been looking for this for many years. Yeah. Why they are different than me. And you know, the good thing, the pastor when they finished their worship, the pastor start to communicate the pure gospel, the simple gospel of Jesus Christ. Because he learned there is a new people in his church, and I was one of them. And his church actually, they translate from Greek into English ee French.

Matt 30:37

Wow.

John 30:38

So it's, I would say it's international church. And, when the pastor start to, share and, deliver his sermon, he said, we are sinners. And sin came through Adam and Eve, and sin separated us from God. And sin became a disease in our heart. And this is why we need a savior And this savior, his name is Jesus Christ. He's the Savior. He came all the way from heaven. He left his glory and he came to earth, as, God on flesh. he lived 33 years and he was crucified for our sins, redeemed us, delivered us from our sins. And he rose from the grave He's alive. He's the way, the truth, and the life, and he's God. If you want your name to be written on the book of life, accept him as Lord and Savior. So that's give me more curiosity to ask more questions. Mm-hmm.'cause I told myself why Jesus died for me. I want to know more. I want to discover why he died for me. Then I met another missionary, or they are from Norway, but they are in that church. I think they are retired. They came to me and they asked me, where are you from? And I spoke to them with my broken English. I'm from Yemen. They were really surprised. Wow. Yemen. Yes, Yemen. what I can remember, they told me, oh, we have a family. We have a missionary in India. They reach out to Muslims and we have a copy of the Bibles. in Arabic, in the New Testament, we would like to give you one as a gift. Read it.

Matt 32:13

Wow.

John 32:14

That's how I remember. Mm-hmm. So I took that Bible. I was so excited to read for myself and to discover for myself, because I wanted to discover why this died for me. So I start from Matthew, chapter one, chapter two, chapter three chapter three, the Baptism of Jesus Christ, where Jesus was, baptized by the baptism John in the Jordan River.

Matt 32:36

Mm-hmm.

John 32:36

And verse 16 and 17 from chapter three says, A voice from heaven said, this is my be beloved son, with whom I am pleased, Wow. I say, God speaks from heaven and. I felt something start to touch my heart. Through reading that baptism, especially about the baptism of Jesus Christ, actually that verse explained to me that the Father speaks from heaven, the Holy Spirit descending like a do and Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Trinity. Mm-hmm. And it answered me about my question, how God can have a son. It's from the scripture. So the scripture convinced me about Jesus Christ. So I continue to read chapter four and five. I start to read the beatitudes. Blessed are the poor in the spirit for there is the kingdom of heaven. All the blessings. And I felt brother, I felt the god of the universe. He's speaking to me directly through the scripture.

Matt 33:39

Amen.

John 33:40

And I was so happy I was reading that over and over again and again and I continued to read chapter six and seven and I received my answers for my questions about prayer, about fasting, about even Love your enemies.

Matt 33:54

Yeah.

John 33:55

Pray for them. I never read about that before in any book. And that was for the first time

Matt 34:01

and you knew the Koran so well. So this was very different to the

John 34:05

Koran. Of course. Koran in Ramadan, I used to read Koran eight, nine times. because the more I read it, I felt it's gonna give me more deeds.

Matt 34:14

Yeah, swab.

John 34:15

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Matt 34:16

Blessings and

John 34:16

power

Matt 34:17

and

John 34:17

yeah.

Matt 34:18

But what was so different about reading the Bible? How is it different?'cause many people listening, they've never read the Quran.

John 34:25

So when I read the Bible, you know, I feel the connection with God. I felt this is, for me, it speaks to me. It's communicate to me personally. When you read Koran, Koran is very, I'll call it mysterious. It's, has a little bit of the story of Abraham here in the middle. In the end, the only story completed is the story of Joseph from the Old Testament, and that's the only story I used to listen as a Muslim. And before I sleep, I listen on my phone, I listen to it, you know, I sleep on that story. That's the only story. It's like, at least similar to the Bible.

Matt 35:05

Yeah.

John 35:06

That's the only story in Quran.

Matt 35:07

All the other stories just, you don't understand the story.

John 35:09

You don't

Matt 35:10

unless you know the Bible

John 35:11

because it's not, it's

Matt 35:12

just little bits.

John 35:12

It's, it's because it's not completed. It's a little bit about. Adam here and in the middle, and it's not like in order.

Matt 35:20

Yeah.

John 35:20

The Bible is in order. You know, you read, you see why we are sinner, why we need a savior. And how the savior came and how he died on the cross, how he rose from the grave. So while I was reading that, you know, scripture from the ceremony in the Mount, it's the most powerful teaching in the universe, I would say. Mm-hmm. I felt, yeah, this is the God I'm looking for. This is the God I wanna follow. This is the God I wanna give life to. I was so excited to go back to the church. But yeah, I went back to the church the following Sunday and I stayed in front actually. And, at the end, the pastor, he said, who wants to give his life to Jesus Christ? I raised up my hands, and, he, prayed, you know? And I was repeating after him in Arabic. But I will say it in English, I am a sinner. And I believe that Jesus Christ came from heaven to rescue me. He died on the cross. And on the third day, he rose, again, Islam behind me. It's in behind me, agnosticism behind me, the world behind me. And Jesus before me. He's my Lord. He's my king. He's my savior. Forever and ever, Amen, I opened up my eyes. I saw everything so beautiful, like a new color and new life. A born again. I was so excited. And I received that hunger, that thirst to read about this God. So I asked the church to gimme the whole Bible.

Matt 36:43

Mm-hmm.

John 36:44

And, they gimme me the whole Bible, you know, I did. challenged myself to read from Genesis to Revelation. So the German missionary left another missionary came to replace them. So that missionary came in the right time. They start to teach me, as a discipleship. So I start to study with them every day.

Matt 37:03

Wow. How many years did

John 37:05

So it took me one year to finish the Bible. and by the end of 2018, I decided to be baptized. Mm-hmm. And when I was baptized, I changed my name, from Muhammad to John, from Islam to Christ, from agnosticism to Christ, from the world to Christ, new life, new name. I made the true savior Jesus Christ, the true redeemer, the true God, the God of the universe. So I remember when, in my baptism day, the pastor from the us, the missionary pastor. He baptized me in the same church, in the Greek church. They are Mennonites and ana Baptist. They're very, scripture based. And, I believe God send them to me in the right time. Because they are a community, a family. they believe in family and community. They are strong beliefs. Mm-hmm. And I came from very, conservative society.

Matt 37:58

Yeah. And

John 37:58

God send the right people in the right time. So I studied very well the Bible. So in my baptism day, the pastor, he say, Yemeni John, upon your confession of faith, I baptize you in the name of the father and the son. And the Holy Spirit. He brought me into the water and I came out of the water. And I felt that, in Revelation from God, the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ, he give me that courage. He put His Holy Spirit upon me. What I remember, he give me that, conviction. I must share him public. And that verses came to my mind from Matthew chapter, 10, where he says, if you deny me, be before people. I will deny you. Be before my Father in heaven. If you acknowledge me, be before people. I will acknowledge you. Be before my father in heaven. And in 37, he says, if you love your mother and your father more than me, you're not worthy of me. If you love your sons and daughters more than me, you are not worthy of me. Pick up your cross and follow me so I know the scripture. I know the Bible. I studied about the persecuted church as well, but I looked to myself and I said, I must share my faith on social media. This is the only way I can share with my people, shame on me if I don't share my faith with my people. Actually, I start to look on social media if I can find Yemeni Christians. Mm-hmm. Which I couldn't find. that's pushed me more, you know, they need to hear about this God, they need to hear about Jesus Christ.

Matt 39:31

Yeah.

John 39:31

So I start to share on social media the same baptism day, because I used to live with the missionary pastor and his wife, because they rescued me. And they, adopted me. Mm-hmm. Because I left the camp, by the way.

Matt 39:45

Okay.

John 39:46

Because I received so many, persecution in the camp I was going to be killed.

Matt 39:50

Oh, really?

John 39:51

By Muslims? Yeah. Yeah.

Matt 39:52

Because you were going to church or after your

John 39:54

Baptist. And Because I was going to the church and I used to take so many people with me to the Bible study and many people came to Christ, I evangelize to anybody. So they, called me that I take Muslims to Christianity. So people, they stopped eating with me and, I was very isolated And, they threatened me, they wanted to kill me. So the missionary pastor, he came to rescue me, he came by his van and, So I stayed in his house and that was a good thing for me as well. Mm-hmm. Because, that's give me more opportunity to observe the Christian life. Yeah. To watch

40:30

it

Matt 40:30

in

John 40:30

person. In person. Yeah. that's really equipped me very, very well.

Matt 40:34

Yeah. I think that's important for a lot of Muslims who come outta Islam Yes. To experience true community and true family because you've had such a strong community and sometimes just going to church is not enough. No. You need genuine friendship and family around you. Family. Yeah. So at least at the beginning you got that by living with this family.

John 40:56

Yeah. I, in Islam we call it, um

Matt 40:58

mm-hmm.

John 40:59

And in Christianity we need, um Yes. The world worldwide community like a mother, you know, um, like, we are together. Mm-hmm. We are family. So actually, yes. I think that, helped me a lot, to stay with the American family. And, so the same baptism day, when I went back to the missionary house. in the dinner time, I told the pastor, you know, I have like a great conviction that I must share my faith public. He say, but your family still back in Yemen, your wife, your daughters. I told him, I'm really convinced and nothing gonna stop me. And he said, okay, we're gonna pray for you. Yeah, he tried to stop me, but, I don't think nobody can stop me that time. I want to share my faith. God told me, I felt like I must share my faith.

Matt 41:44

Yeah.

John 41:45

So I was driven by God, not by myself. Yeah. I was driven by God. So the same night I shared my testimony, my baptism, and, I had few followers in social media. At that time only Facebook and YouTube and like family and friends. But somehow the following day, I wake up and, so many phone calls, messages, people send me bad things and what are, it was like, shocking news In my community, in Yemen because. When they saw as a Yemeni who was baptized and share his baptism and declared his faith in Christ public, that was a shock to my family, to my society. To Yemen? To Arabs.

Matt 42:33

Yeah. Deep sense of embarrassment and shame.

John 42:36

Yes. Them. So the Imam in the mosque declared Fatwa against me.

Matt 42:41

In your village?

John 42:42

In my village where I grew up and declared that my marriage is broken. He ordered my uncle, because I told you I was married to my cousin. So my uncle, he was ordered by the Imam to take his daughter back. So he took his daughter my wife. So they divorced her under Islamic. My daughters, I have two daughters, remain with my mother because the, father has the custody.

Matt 43:08

Wow.

John 43:09

Yes. This is in Islamic faith. So now till today, my daughter says, will remain with my mother. So I start to receive a lot of phone calls from the family. Ah, some of them angry, embarrassed, ashamed, scared, crying. my uncles, they start to call me because, as a Yemeni, we grow up that we follow the order of the people who are older than us, like my uncles, my, you

Matt 43:37

have to obey

John 43:37

them. You have to obey them. You have to listen to them. If you tell, you go this way, you go this way. No discussion about that,

Matt 43:44

especially in the tribal background.

John 43:45

Very, very tribal, mindset. But I didn't listen to them because I have decided to follow Jesus Christ, not turning back, not out of, rudeness was bold for Christ and I am bold for Christ. I am radical for Christ.

Matt 44:00

That's true.

John 44:01

And when they called me, no, I started to evangelize to them. So they blocked me. Oh. So the last card they have my mother. So my mother called me. They used her, you know, she was very, so, I can't believe this is my son. tell me this is not, this is a joke or this is a, I said, no, this is your son. This is your son. Now I met the true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and this God. He came all the way from heaven to rescue us. He died on the cross, on the third day. he rose again. Repent. Wow. She was really offended. How dare you say that? This is Haram. you will go to hell. How dare you say Mecca is not from Allah. You will go to hell. And she was crying. she was really. Cared about me. Because she couldn't understand. She's blind and it's hard

Matt 44:48

for your heart.

John 44:49

Yes. It was so difficult. So difficult. And, yeah, she said, this is European people brainwash you. No, Jesus Christ. Because I respond with the name of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. He give me a new brain. He give me a new life. I didn't do anything wrong. she say, I wish you killed someone, or you did, a crime instead of brought this, shame, because, you know, the other tribes, they start to persecute my family. they try to accuse them, mock them. This is your fault. Mm-hmm. you can't, control him. you didn't raise him in true Islamic faith. so many things. I was really devoted. Yeah.

Matt 45:28

They did everything they could.

John 45:29

They, yes, but They don't believe that you are free to choose what you want. Very different than Europe or the West. It's very, very different.

Matt 45:39

And how old were your daughters

John 45:41

that time? I was 23 years old and they were probably four and or five, yeah, around five. And yeah. Between Was

Matt 45:51

that the hardest thing?

John 45:52

It was really difficult. Yeah. Because, I felt like I lost everything. I lost my daughters, my wife, She was divorced from me. my mother, my father. Mm-hmm. And, it's like David, when he said, from Psalms, 27 10, my father and my mother have forsaken me, but the Lord will receive me. I was really sad. And that time, I couldn't even sleep that night. Of course. It was really difficult. And, the good thing I was with the American family. I think they supported me in somehow as a family. They prayed for me. And I, told Jesus Christ, I can't do it by myself. It's so hard. It's so difficult. I lost everything for you. Even my safety.

Matt 46:34

Mm-hmm.

John 46:35

Not only my family, because I don't belong to family, I belong to tribe, I belong to, um mm-hmm. You know, to Islam. But I lost everything because of my believing in you. I lost everything. And, he gimme me that verse from, Matthew, 16 where he says what they benefit, if man, again, the whole world and lose his own soul. I say, Lord Jesus Christ. I know deep down in my soul, in my heart, that if I am the only one on earth, you will still come to rescue me and redeem me and save me and die on the cross for me and rose from the grave. So I will continue to share you no matter what, because I already lost everything for you. I don't care what I'm gonna lose. I belong to you. I don't belong to myself. And that's another decision for my life. And, yes, I choose Christ over my family, over my culture, over my daughters, over my country, over Islam, over Arabs, over everything I used to belong to everything. Everything.

Matt 47:37

Wow.

John 47:38

So it was so difficult, but in the same time, it's worth it.

Matt 47:42

Yeah.

John 47:43

So I said, Jesus Christ. Okay, I am ready for any adventure. So actually Brother Matthew, Matt, from that time till today, I never looked back. I've been fellow of Jesus Christ from, the end of 2000 and S till now. We are 2026. I never looked back. And then we did a lot of mission in Greece. My life became at risk, so I had to flee even from Greece, right? Because I start to go public, I start to speak on tv. Mm-hmm. and so I was accused that we take Muslims to Christ. Mm-hmm. And, so I had to flee from Greece. I ended up in the uk so now I am based in the uk. I've been here in the UK for six years. I am full-time evangelist. I serve on social media. my social media become bigger. I have over 1 million followers.

Matt 48:32

Wow.

John 48:33

On social media. my focus number one is Arabs. There is more than 300 million, Arabic speaking around the world. And I focus on my nation Yemen, because I always say my videos go or I can't.

Matt 48:45

Yeah.

John 48:46

So I can't go back to Yemen, but through social media. It's a mission field. Yeah. My videos go or I can't.

Matt 48:53

What do you think would happen if you went back to Yemen?

John 48:56

If I go back to Yemen, it's gonna be the speedy ticket to heaven. They're gonna skin me live, they're gonna crucify me. As soon as I put my foot on the land of Yemen. They're gonna skin me, they're gonna crucify me. They're gonna, send a message actually to Yemenis. If you dare to do what John did, This is the result. Mm-hmm. Because, I believe more than 25 million of Yemenis heard about the gospel through my videos.

Matt 49:20

Wow.

John 49:20

And Yemen, they are 35, I think. 35 million.

Matt 49:24

That's amazing. Yeah.

John 49:25

So the gospel through social media is really effective and we've seen so many testimonies, so many, people came to Christ. Yeah. But they are underground, you know? Yes. They are secret believers. It's so difficult in Yemen. but, I always say nobody can stop the spread of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of the kingdom of

Matt 49:45

Heaven. Mm-hmm. Amen. Let me come on to some of those stories from your social media outreach in a minute. just a little bit more in your family and Yemen for yourself personally, do you think if you went back to Yemen, obviously you can't, but would the government take you and deal with you or do you think it would just be people on the streets or your family? You have no idea. Guess what would

John 50:09

happen? I believe if I arrive back to Yemeni airport, let's say, they gonna detain me straight away.

Matt 50:16

Yeah. But, and

John 50:17

put you on

50:17

a

Matt 50:17

public trial, maybe?

John 50:18

Yes. But yes. Yeah. Public trial, they gonna send a message to everybody.

Matt 50:22

Yeah.

John 50:23

Yeah. If I pass that control, the society will. because even the family, because some of the families, they volunteer to execute me.

Matt 50:32

Right.

John 50:32

So there is three elements for persecution in Yemen. Family number one, second the society. Third the government.

Matt 50:41

Yeah. anyone could get you.

John 50:43

Yes.

Matt 50:43

Yeah. And have any of your family members stayed in touch with you? Has there been any softening? Or reaching out from,

John 50:52

at the beginning it was so hard for them because they received a lot of persecution. People spit on their faces. even, I heard when my name, mentioned in front of them, they can't look to the other people. They look to the ground because they're ashamed.

Matt 51:10

Yeah.

John 51:11

So it's very difficult for them. it's very closed society and it's very difficult even to explain that society if you don't live in that society. Yeah. it's so hard. Yeah. If they don't believe in freedom of religion or human rights or they don't believe in that, so how will you expect Them to react.

Matt 51:31

That's true. And even if one individual wanted to reach out to you, they can't really, because they're becoming a traitor themselves against society.

John 51:38

Yes, they tried. Actually they tried and they were shut down. They were shut down quickly. Very quickly. because I believe even this generation, they have a lot of questions but they're controlled by the family culture, by the society culture, by the Muslim culture. So they are not, willing to. to take step forward, even here in the uk I was surprised to see this. I met, ex-Muslims because I got to speak in, universities, churches. I met recently, a few weeks ago, Pakistani. He was born and raised in the uk and he actually, came to me after my speech in the university and he told me, oh, thank you so much. you encouraged me so much because I'm an ex-Muslim. I still live with my parents. And, I couldn't tell my parents because they are very really, yes, and they took me to the mosque. I fast in Ramadan. I am actually a hundred percent controlled by them, so I am really lost. I don't know what to do.

Matt 52:38

Yeah,

John 52:38

so I, told him, you can't live this double life. That's my advice to him. you need to tell them you need to choose Christ or Islam. So I was willing to pray for him. so I took his details. Now I encourage him, you know, at least, and I think he's in the state now, to just tell his parents and, I think as soon as he saw me, I think that give him a little courage, that he's not the only one.

Matt 53:03

Yeah, definitely. And more and more around the whole world, we're seeing Muslims coming to Christ, getting fed up with Islam. Even in the uk. I mean that story is exactly one I could repeat from the last year. I've met a couple of Yeah. School aged Muslims. University aged Muslims who are exactly where you are. Yeah. You know, many years ago asking questions, wanting to follow Jesus. But how do I tell my family

John 53:28

Yes.

Matt 53:28

yeah, we have to be very careful how we encourage them to be bold and to reveal that at the correct moment. but they have to be led by the spirit, don't they? And have the confidence. They have to

John 53:38

be

Matt 53:38

from him.

John 53:38

They have to be radiant to count the cost. Yes. Because if you are not willing to count the cost, you will be broken. You will be, crushed. Yes.

Matt 53:48

And you have to be secure

John 53:49

because we're a human being. We are human being. If I'm not secured enough. I will end it up with like mental health or, Deep depression or anxiety because the rejection as a human being, it's not easy. Yeah. And I think for me, people, they always ask me about these things, why you are different. I think, God, when you look back to my journey, you know, how he bought me, through even the traveling, I was homeless. it's a journey for me. Mm-hmm. And I learned a lot from that. Mm-hmm. I was equipped

Matt 54:20

exactly

John 54:21

very well. And even though when I became Christian. Through the Christians as well themselves, this Mennonite and a Baptist. That was a great testimony as well.

Matt 54:30

Yes.

John 54:30

I believe it was from God to train me. It was a great season for me.

Matt 54:35

Yeah. I think that's important because often, on the podcast, I talk about, one of my favorite characters from scripture is Ananias who met Paul.

John 54:43

Yes.

Matt 54:44

Because who is Ananias? We know nothing about him, but he was faithful in one moment and he could lead this Paul. To, you know, receive his sight to disciple him a little bit maybe. and that's the role these guys played in your life. The ones who go, you know, maybe, yeah. Muslims are having dreams around the world. Maybe they're online and they found your videos and they're coming to Christ, but sometimes they need an Ananias to support them. To support them. Yeah. And pray with them. To be family with them. Yeah. In person, not just online. Oh my. Yeah. So there is a role isn't there for coming together of all the different Christians around the world, those who go, those who stay. And in the uk can you tell us some advice for churches in the uk?'cause more and more we are getting Muslims coming to Christ, coming to church. Yes. Getting baptized. But how do we look after them?

John 55:32

I would say this is a great opportunity. I think the greatest thing is to welcome them, to accept him as they are, because they're human being. And I always say, when we come from Islamic background to Christ, we come with a lot of problems. So we need a discipleship journey. Some people to walk with us, to accept us as we are, and the Lord of course will guide us and will change our life, will shape us, will change our character. some people it, takes, a few months. Some people it takes years. but yeah, I pray that the church will be really, willing to receive ex-Muslims. Yeah, I call them ex-Muslims.

Matt 56:12

Yes.

John 56:13

To receive ex-Muslims like me. because if you really receive an ex-Muslim and you trained him well, you received him as a member of the family of God, this ex-Muslim will be a great voice for the, kingdom of heaven, for Christ, for his people. If he's from Yemen like me, he will be a voice for his people. He will preach the gospel to his people. He is he from Pakistan. He will share with Pakistani. If he's from Afghani, he will share with Afghani.

Matt 56:38

Yeah.

John 56:39

From Arabic background, you will share with Arabs from Africa, with Africans from Chinese for with Chinese. So it's really important that we receive them, we work with them, we become a family to them. Yes. It's not just a Sunday. Or Hi, how are you? No, no, no, no, no. Can we have a dinner? Can we have a lunch? Yeah.

Matt 56:58

So important food and hospitality

John 57:00

hospital and even, you can host them if they don't have house, are you willing to open your house to them? to open, to open your house so they can watch you. Mm-hmm. Of course you will be fearful because you don't know them, but trust the Lord.

Matt 57:13

Yes.

John 57:13

And of course, mistakes will happen But the Lord will honor that.

Matt 57:17

Yes. That's so good.

John 57:19

Yeah. And this is what, when I look back, I think when this family, from the US in Greece, they received me. They welcomed me. the wife of the pastor, she used to wash My clothes. she cooked for me every morning. You know, we wake up every morning, we read the scripture together. We did devotion.

Matt 57:37

Yeah.

John 57:38

They supported me. They prayed for me. And, see the result now, I been to the UK Parliament. I've been to, Geneva Human Rights Council, to the European Parliament, from village to camp, to Christ. To evangelist

Matt 57:56

even in Parliament.

John 57:57

Even in the Parliament. Yeah. Like 2022 I was in the UK Parliament and I, spoke aside even, it was like a international ministerial, conference for religious freedom. And I spoke actually in a side event with Lord David Alton. We hosted an event about Apostasy law. And, so it was amazing. earlier this year in January, I was in Belgium. I was speaking in the European parliament. Ah,

Matt 58:23

Yeah. I want to just pause on that really helpful thing you said about church needs to be family. I think sometimes people think with this ministry, oh, everybody has to be an evangelist. If you want to reach Muslims, but we don't. Some must do the slow work of discipleship. Some can just bake and clean and host and there are some amazing people in the church. that's as important, you know, because we want to journey with people who are ex-Muslim all their lives, not just for the first five minutes until they come to Christ. it's a lifelong journey. It's community, isn't it? Community gospel. Yeah. Yeah. And we do need to step up, I think in the church sometimes and realize if hundreds and thousands are gonna come to Christ, we may need hundreds and thousands of homes.

John 59:07

Amen.

Matt 59:08

To open up a room, to open up a bed. That's, this is the kingdom of God and it's not gonna get easier. Of course, economies collapse and wars happen, but if the kingdom is the heart of what we do, then we shouldn't be so protectionist about our own comfortable lives and we should be open-hearted. And suffer alongside you.'cause you've suffered for the gospel. We should be willing to do the same.

John 59:28

Yes.

Matt 59:28

Alongside,

John 59:29

yeah. The Bible says, you know, somehow Paul, he said, we are one body, you know, if, part of, the body of Christ suffer, the whole body will suffer. So we must of course be, family, a mighty family of God. This is, I always say I lost my family, but I belong to, a mighty family of God. Amen. So this mighty family of God, they need to be a mighty family of God. Yeah. Yes, I do agree with you. I, yes, I appeal to the Christians if they meet Muslims, especially ex Muslims, they receive them. They don't look to them through the lens of the culture. No. Look to them through the lens of Christ.

Matt 1:00:07

Yeah.

John 1:00:08

Because they are brothers and sisters in Christ, how we can help them. If God help you in a Christian household, use it to bless another.

Matt 1:00:16

Yeah. If our own son or daughter was homeless, we would of course help if our own son or daughter needed finances as parents Yeah, of course. We'll do what we can or get them a job or, you know, help'em. So we must do the same for Yeah. Sons and daughters of the kingdom. Yes. Yeah. Brother. time is running out a little bit. I do want to hear one or two stories of some from your social media ministry, because you are doing so many things all over the Middle East. Can you give us one or two encouraging stories of people, perhaps from Yemen or Saudi or somewhere else? yeah, who you've been. Introducing to Christ,

John 1:00:50

yes, to, 2020, the beginning of the pandemic. I was new in the UK and I was sharing on social media, the gospel. I, came across, Yemeni, who was based in Dubai. So he contacted me through, private messages through Messenger. And he said, John, I see something in you. I read about Christianity, but you are from my country and, I wanna have a lot of questions. And, there is something different about you. So because you are joyful, you are different. What's this? so I, answered him. This is Christ, you know, straightforward. So we get into Christ, I start to tell him about Jesus Christ, about his love, about his redemption. And he said, I want this Christ. I want him. What should I do? I don't, I accept him as Lord and Savior. So he give his life to Jesus Christ. I lead him to Christ. I start to involve him with Bible study. It was online during the pandemic with friends. from the US and, Arabs as well. and during that time, we start to study. when we studied about baptism, he said, I wanna be baptized. Well, I told him, it's pandemic and you are in Dubai and we can't travel to Dubai. And that church is in Dubai. They can't baptize you because they can't baptize ex-Muslims. But he say, uh, if I die, I wanna be baptized. It's pandemic. It's COVID-19. I wanna be baptized before I die. I told him, you need to wait. And he say, baptize me on Zoom. Mmm. I told him, well, this sound crazy. I don't know about this. I never come across this before. So I told him, okay, let me ask some of the leaders and some of my friends, who's really, they are pastors. So I ask them about this situation. They say, you know, John, we are in crazy time. okay, let's meet on Zoom and let's see. That's how he can baptize himself and we will be a witness. Wow. That's the only way. That's

Matt 1:02:45

cool.

John 1:02:45

So we gathered on Zoom. I met another Yemeni as well. He's a believer he's a Yemeni American. He was, with us some of the leaders and we gathered on Zoom, we prayed, and, it was, midnight actually the UK time. and because, of the US time as well, it was behind. Mm-hmm. So. And he went to shower pool. And, I said, in Arabic, upon your confession of faith, upon your confession of faith, I baptized in the name of the Father and the son and the Holy Spirit. Of course, after we said, do you believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior? Do you renounce Islam? And, so he say yes. And okay, now you baptized yourself. Wow. He baptized himself and he came out of the water. He was so happy he start to cry, with joy. Yeah. And he start to tell us how he felt that something left from him. And, he was so excited and he allowed me to share, you know, I'm social media evangelist. He told me, you are afraid to share my video. Wow. So always like, happy to share on social media. Yeah. Yeah. I believe in this. and I shared it on social media and he was discovered, he was reported by his friends and, the authorities, they kicked him. He lost his job, he lost his everything in Dubai and he was kicked out of, Dubai. And he traveled to other country in Middle East and praised the Lord. It's God's plan. He met some other Christians, so they received him. Did, the discipleship and leadership, teaching in his life and now he's, a secret, you know, he helped the underground church.

Matt 1:04:25

Wow. Praise God. Yeah. That's so good. I'm sure you have so many different stories. You could share lots of people you're interacting with on a daily basis. Yeah. Do you have any final encouragement for the church? or a scripture that you want to bring us? Any final thoughts? Final words?

John 1:04:42

I love you Christians in the West, especially in the uk. I believe we need to be bold for Christ, be radical for Christ. And part of our journey as a disciples of Jesus Christ is to share our faith. the disciples of Jesus Christ, you know, they didn't stay, quiet. They shared their faith. that's part of our life as disciples of Jesus Christ. You don't have to be evangelist. God, I believe, will use you to share your faith with your neighbors, with Muslims, especially here in the UK and around the world as well. be strong in the Lord. Love him, follow him, declare him. read the word of God. it's really important that we read the word of Jesus Christ because he said, if you love me. You will obey my commandments. If you abide in me, I will abide in Europe and you will bear fruit.

Matt 1:05:36

Yes. Much fruit.

John 1:05:37

Much fruit. Yes. That's right. As Paul, he declared in Romans one sixteens, I am not ashamed of the gospel. For the gospel is the salvation, the power of God to the whole nations.

Matt 1:05:48

That's right. Yeah. Thank you brother. And we live in amazing times. It is incredible. I mean, I get to sit here and interview guys like you others on the podcast from Pakistani background or Somali background. Mm. And God is doing something in our generation that we have never seen in history before. Yeah. For the country of Yemen and Saudi and Afghanistan and all these places. And let's get on board guys. Absolutely. Let's got on. God is doing a new thing amongst Muslim slims. He loves Muslim slim people, whether here in our countries or to the ends of the earth. And let's keep giving and praying and opening our homes. And for some who are listening, let's go. Let's go to the toughest places,

John 1:06:30

hallelu. Yeah.

Matt 1:06:31

Bless you, brother. So good to be with you. Thanks for your time today. Thank you

John 1:06:34

so much for having me, brother.

1:06:37

Thanks so much for joining us today, guys. May the Lord give us courage and faith and perseverance like those in the global church who suffer for the gospel and for Jesus. As always, do get in touch if you want to share how God's speaking to you through the podcast, or if you want to give to our work, reaching out with the good news to Muslims all over the world. Have a great week, and do join us next time