Veiled and Voiceless in Iran

This is the testimony of Esther, an Iranian lady who grew up as a Muslim under the Ayatollah's Islamic regime. Her story is a powerful one - of religious rituals and rules, of strict segregation, of being silent and unseen.

She had only 8 hours to flee the country at one point because of a particular threat of being reported to the government. Her husband got caught and imprisoned on that day. 

In the UK, Esther began a journey to Jesus that involved visions, paintings, Scripture that came into her mind (though she had never seen a Bible) and a powerful dream. 

This is an amazing story of freedom - in more ways than one.

Transcript

Esther: 0:02

And then I had a dream of Jesus. my dream was having lots of bags, carrier bags, and try to go up the hill and it was so difficult. It was so, so heavy. And suddenly someone touches my shoulder and I can vividly remember that it was wet shoulder touching my shoulder, walk with me and said, give me all your bag. And I just passed my bag, and I just put it on. I thought it's in his shoulder. But when he went up the hill, I saw he's Carrying the cross, and I put all my bag on the cross.

0:40

Hi guys. Welcome back to Raw Mission. As you know, if you're a regular listener, we sometimes invite guests onto the show who've grown up Muslim, but who've chosen to follow Jesus. And today I am delighted to have a dear Iranian sister on the show whom we're calling Esther. Esther was raised in Iran under the Ayatollah's strict Islamic regime, and her incredible story includes Forbidden Love, a hunger strike, a threat that caused her to flee Iran and claim asylum visions, paintings, and a friend who led hundreds to Christ in prison.

Matt: 1:11

Well welcome Esther. It is great to have you on the show on Raw Mission tonight. And, this is a little bit unusual because we're doing this in front of a live audience at a church locally here. tell us where you grew up and try and paint a picture for what that was like for you.

Esther: 1:26

So, I was born and brought up in Muslim family. My grandfather was an Imam in a mosque. So as you can imagine, we have very strict rule to keeping all this Islamic and Sharia law, which is much more like Jewish law 360 or more. And I had to start as a little girl at the age of nine, all my Sharia Law duty, which was fasting from sunrise to sunset and praying every day five times a day. And so my dad and my granddad were very strict about it.

Matt: 2:01

Wow. So you said your grandfather was it who was the Imam. So a senior Islamic leader. Yeah. And this was in Iran?

Esther: 2:09

Yes.

Matt: 2:10

You grew up in Iran. Right. So what was that like? Because some of us will know that there was an Islamic Revolution in 1979 and that's when the Shah was deposed. Right. The king of Iran in those days. And after that, there's been a strict Islamic regime in your country. What was that like for you, just sort of out and about on the street? Did you always have to cover your head and Yeah. Tell us some of those experiences growing up into your teens, I guess.

Esther: 2:36

Yeah. Well, as. You may know or you may not know. In Muslim country, the women are second citizens. Sometimes they are completely unseen and unheard. You you are not allowed to speak unless you've spoken to. So no one should hear your voice and no one should see your face and your hair, so you have to cover yourself completely. In our household, we used to eat separately. So men came first and they eat first, and then the lady who were behind the curtain came after and eat in our household. my grandfather used to pray in the front, and the ladies has to be in the back row. And if you are wearing a mask, you're wearing a gallery of. Stars, which the men should pray and could pray in downstairs. So it was completely separate. We had separate school even in university we had separate stairs to go up and down to not to have any contact with any male, so not talking.

Matt: 3:37

I cannot imagine how difficult that would be for you growing up. I mean, in some ways I suppose that was all you knew, but I also wonder, was there pushback? Did you have friends or. Cousins who would push back against that kind of strict? Well, I incredibly strict lifestyle.

Esther: 3:56

No. This life was what we all know and we didn't know anything else. And you weren't allowed to question anything. You weren't allowed to question God. And we weren't allowed to speak to God because simply God is too holy. We had 125 people like Imam and prophet to pray to. So not even talking to God because God is holy and you never question, you just have to obey So yes, of course we all had a question, but they never been answered. Especially my grandfather was very s strict and he always said, you're not questioning. You just have to abide and follow the rule and the law.

Matt: 4:37

What about contact with the outside world? Did you watch a TV and see different societies that were very different to yours?

Esther: 4:44

No, we had tv, but it was all national, so we didn't have anything in my time. Now it's different because people have internet and satellite, so it's different. But in my time, no, we didn't have anything. So everything was very strict on the regime. And we had our newspaper, which was from government and nothing, no access to outside. So it was just a normal routine and we didn't know anything from outside really.

Matt: 5:10

Wow. I've had some Iranian friends who pushed back against the regime because they were more friendly towards the Shah and the previous. Government and I think their family had book clubs where they would read illegal books, you know, books perhaps from the west or from other countries banned by the government. And some of them got into real trouble for that. There's very dangerous, isn't it, to speak up or do anything against the regime. Was that some of your experience of your friends?

Esther: 5:39

Well I will come to that later, but when I met my husband he was my first boyfriend when I was 18. I met him and they had bookshop and he was Baha'ii my father-in-law. Was in the jail for 30 years just because they have bookshop and they were Baha'ii. Baha'ii are very much look like Islam, a little bit more modern. They have different holy book if you haven't heard that. And they're badly persecuted. They were not allowed and still not allowed to go to university. They don't have any ID card and they're not being recognized as a human or as a citizen at all. So my father-in-law was in the jail after Islamic Revolution for 30 years.

Matt: 6:21

Wow. 30 years?

Esther: 6:23

Yes.

Matt: 6:24

Wow. Because he was from a different faith background, the Baha'i Faith, which yeah, many of us probably haven't heard of. But, how on earth did you meet your husband then in this very strict regime where you can only be with the ladies and you know, go to a female only school and so on. How did you meet him?

Esther: 6:39

Well when I was 18, and I have to say in our culture, you have to marry your first cousin. This is something our fathers promised each other, so there's no other choice and you don't have any choice and you're not allowed to talk to any other male at all. But in our school, they ask us to go to the bookshop and order some book, and obviously, I was just the one who says, shall I go? and I went to the bookshop and I said to the guy, would you. Please order that book for us. And he said, oh, okay. I don't have it, but can I have your telephone number? And I was just said, yes. We didn't have mobile. We did have just the one big wire telephone, Which was next to my dad's seat all the time. And he was the only one who allowed to answer the phone. And my husband you know, we weren't boyfriend girlfriend. That time he called and I picked the phone and he said, I'm from book shop. I just wanted to say we don't have your book yet. Said, okay, thank you. And he said, how are you? I was like, I'm good, thank you. And my dad was just looking at me. Who are you talking to? I said, that is a bookshop. And then he called again day after and said, I'm from bookshop. I just wanted to say, we don't have your book, but can I, I said, no, you can't. And then I thought, well, this guy don't have any idea, so I have to go and see him again. And I said, please do call me when you have a book, not if you don't. And then this is how he started.

Matt: 8:06

Wow. Well that's, I'm sure that's quite a long story of how that all worked out. What happened next in your, life, the trajectory of your life and I guess you got married at some point. Did your parents accept the marriage initially?

Esther: 8:19

Yeah. Well, he was Baha'i'i when he came. When I said to my dad that I want to marry that man because he find out, we only met four times before my dad find out, and he locked me in the room and he said, you're not allowed to go because you're gonna marry your cousin. And I said, well, I don't want to marry him. So I was on hunger strike, that was the only way. So I was in the room for a few months and then he give up at the end and he asked, okay, call him to come. He came and for proposal, he came with 28 people. This is how we do in Iran. And my dad said, no, because he's not Muslim. He said, okay, I'm happy to be become Muslim. And he did. but only a name. Never practice as a Muslim. Okay. And we married together when we had our first daughter and she was five. She said in assembly at the school that we had Baha'i'i celebration at home. And then I had a phone call from school and the head mistress. Told me that your daughter said you had Baha'ii celebration. because it was in front of all assembly, I have to report you. Otherwise they're gonna shut my school. But I give you eight hours to leave the country because the consequences of marrying a non-Muslim man is just persecution. Well? hanging for me.

Matt: 9:40

Hanging.

Esther: 9:41

Yes. Because you're not allowed to marry a non-Muslim man.

Matt: 9:44

Well, even though he. Technically converted to Islam,

Esther: 9:47

but because he wasn't practice and he was on the list, all the Baha'i people had cards, ID cards and they were on lists. So they knew, the government knew he only become Muslim because of my dad, but never practiced Islam or any law or anything.

Matt: 10:04

Wow.

Simon: 10:05

Yes.

Matt: 10:05

what happened next?

Esther: 10:07

Well, I was pregnant with my son, so I remember I was middle of room and I didn't know what to do. So I called my husband and government always listened to our conversation on phone, so I couldn't even speak freely. So I said, we have your dad's situation, because his dad was in jail and he knew, and I said, what shall I do? We have eight hours. He said, pack lightly, and I meet you in airport. I remember, I didn't know how I can pack lightly for how long, when I come back and what should I take? So I took a few photos. I took my grandfather and Grandma Spoon, which were very close to me, and it just had a personal sentiment and I didn't have enough time to say goodbye to my granny and granddad. So I had to call them and I said, I don't know when, but we'll call you very soon. But we are going away. And we live in Iran in Tehran, which is like London, very busy. So I couldn't go there. So I went to the airport and the first destination was Turkey. Because for going to Turkey, you don't need any visa or anything. And when you're married in Iran, you keep your surname. So I had different surname from my husband, so we had two different surname. So he said just stand away from me with distance. You go first and whatever happened, don't look back, carry on and I'll meet you in Turkey. you have to pass two security guard. One was checking your document and the second was checking who you are. So they check my document and it was all fine. The second station, they just start to asking why you traveling alone? Because you're not permitted. You have to have a permission from your dad or your husband, your uncle, so you have to occupy with one man. And I didn't know what to say. And that time my husband start to making some noise and take all attention to himself. So they just let me go and they all just went to him and arrest him. And I take the flight, I went to Turkey. I wait there for two days for him to come. And bearing in mind, we didn't have mobile phone, so I couldn't even contact him and he didn't come. So then I knew I have to come. Here because I had a visa for UK for five years because my parents came years before.

Matt: 12:37

Wow. So you escaped Iran. You were pregnant with your number two and your daughter was with you. But your husband didn't make it. He was taken at the airport back into the jail or just take him home? Yes. He

Esther: 12:49

was in the jail for two years.

Matt: 12:51

Two years?

Esther: 12:52

Yeah.

Matt: 12:52

Wow. And that's very frightening. It's not just like jail here. No. I can't imagine how tough that was. But that's a story for another time, perhaps. Yes. So you managed to get all the way to Britain Yes. On that visa. Yeah. I'll bring it forward to. What happened when you moved here? What was the reception like? How on earth did you know where to go and how to settle? Did you have family here? Well,

Esther: 13:14

my mom and dad and my brother and sister, they were here. They came 1999 because my sister was had some difficulty with government, so they had to leave the country. And so that's why I had Visa to come here, I didn't know a word of English, so it was so funny to say to the lady, I need to call my mom? It's just so simple. Can I call mom? It took me five hours and then I said, can I have phone? No. I didn't know what phone is, so I used everything I could and then I start crying. And we didn't have the luxury of you know, this phone with all translation and everything and

Matt: 13:53

yeah. And they didn't have an interpreter at the airport?

Esther: 13:55

No, we didn't, unfortunately. Finally someone understood me and then they said, give her a phone. and then I called mom, it was four o'clock in the morning in the uk and I said, can you come and pick me up? And my mom said, from where? I said, I'm in Heathrow. She said, why? I said, just come, I'm hungry. So then she came and picked me up.

Matt: 14:16

How many years ago is this now?

Esther: 14:18

It was 2004.

Matt: 14:20

Okay. And then, then what happened? You settled into life in England and bring us forward to the sort of beginnings of your faith story.

Esther: 14:26

Well before that I learned all my English from CBeebies with subtitles. So I learned from Peppa Pig and Postman Pat. Yes. So that was the way I could afford So this is how I learned my English.

Matt: 14:41

It's very good now.

Esther: 14:42

Thank you. I'm still watching Peppa Pig. In fact, I always preach on Peppa Pig. And then when my husband joined me that's another story, took three months to come to uk. I was so grateful that he's alive and he came. We start having news agent because that was our level of English And then I promised myself one day I will start language school for people like me who come to this, country. They want to work, but they can't afford these fees. So instead of 3000 pound for any fees for normal language school, I start charging them 50 pound whenever they can. So that's how I start my second business. Not as a teacher, but just starting a business. And it was very good, very successful but the life was so lonely and it was very hard. No friend and family was. So, so busy. It was different, completely different planet. I have to learn how to cross the road because you guys just using different way. So starting from the scratch to survive how to live. and on top of that, I didn't know the kind of God I can talk to freely. It wasn't very kind God. And you have to keep the law. And I wasn't sure how I can do that with all business of life and everything. So I just became so depressed and with all stress. but before I jump on that, I have to point on the first one. This was the vision. One night I had early, early days when I came to uk. It was just all blue. So I have to buy some paint and you know, canvas and start to paint, I didn't know what it is and I couldn't understand why I, half naked lady with the dove. So as a Muslim woman, I said I can't put it anywhere. So I put it in attic. So that was 2005 and I had no idea what it is.

Matt: 16:48

Was this a vision you saw while praying or just at night in a dream or,

Esther: 16:53

no, it was in my head. It was just come again and again and again and it just becomes so real, which I could paint it at the end. It seemed like I had it next to me. So it was nothing. It was just all the vision in my head. Wow.

Matt: 17:08

Yeah. For our listeners, it's hard because we've got the painting in front of us right here, and it is a beautiful picture of a lady in a body of water, a river or something like that?

Esther: 17:17

Yeah, it's a river and a dove on the shoulder and

Matt: 17:20

the dove on her shoulder

Esther: 17:21

and then the eyes you can't see anything because I'm very wary when it, when it come to the eyes, because the eyes can show your soul. So I couldn't paint anything.

Matt: 17:30

Right. So you had this. Vision. You had to paint this picture, you put it in the attic.'cause Yes, it's perhaps not appropriate to keep out as a Muslim woman. So were you practicing as a Muslim

Esther: 17:40

Yeah. I was part of the mosque down the road in our area.

Matt: 17:43

Yep.

Esther: 17:44

And used to go there and pray and be there. And I had lots of friends from, the community the Muslim people have called, which means mother, and they are very, very close to each other. They support each other. they are there for you. So you know, you can go and call them whenever you want. So it's very, very supportive and it's just like your second family.

Matt: 18:09

And would you say you were a proud Muslim?

Esther: 18:11

it's hard to say proud Muslim, but I think this was the way of life I knew. I remember once in a shop, some people who came and they said, I wanted to pray for you. I never said that to any Muslim people. I want to pray for you because it means there's something wrong with you. And I, just asked them to leave my shop. I said, just pray for yourself please, there's nothing wrong with me. And then when I became Christian, I went to find them and said, thank you so much for your prayer. Now I know what you did.

Matt: 18:40

Wow, that's really interesting. so you had this vision, you didn't know what it meant and. were in your Muslim community, finding good support, good strength from that second family here in the uk, were you still covered up as much as you would've been in Iran with the full chadoor and your face covered? Or did you just go to a lighter veil

Esther: 19:02

Yes. Very light. Yeah. Well, I always had my coat, very long coat, and I always had my scarf, but very lightly. Mm, okay. And it's like, yeah, because it's just so hard here.

Matt: 19:13

Yes,

Esther: 19:13

fasting is longer and praying is difficult, and finding halal food was absolutely nightmare because it wasn't like now you go to Sainsbury, you find all these halal food. It wasn't like this, so it was very difficult. But I have to say the most difficult things was where's my salvation? I keep all this law, I pray five times a day, and with one small sin. I can be in barbecue in hell. So where is my salvation? Where is God? Have mercy and compassion toward me. That was always in my head, and I did try since I was nine, 10, asking my grandfather. It was never answered properly. So I always had this question even when I came to UK, I just found it even difficult to find the right time to keep all this law. It wasn't easy at all. So that was one of the difficulty I had and also not answering, and I couldn't find the good reason at God of creation, why he's so angry all the time.

Matt: 20:22

Thank you. Yeah, that's really interesting insight. A lot of work, I think you said earlier. Yes. It was tiring just trying to please this angry God and never knowing if he would actually accept you.

Esther: 20:34

Yes.

Matt: 20:34

So how did all that change? How did you come to know more about Jesus?

Esther: 20:38

Well, one night when I was very, very tired bear in mind I had to start opening the shop at three o'clock in the morning, and then my husband used to go to cash and carry and come take the, shop from me. And then I had to start school and I finished the school like nine or 10 o'clock in night. And I had to run all the time. And I didn't have any time for anything. And I was always feeling guilty you know, to fall short from all this duty and the burden of carrying my, you know, saving myself. It was just unbearable. When one night I said I had enough and I don't want to face tomorrow anymore. And then as I said that I fell asleep in the couch waiting for everyone to sleep. And then I had a dream of Jesus. I didn't know it was Jesus. My dream was having lots of bags, carrier bags, very heavy and try to go up the hill and it was so difficult. It was so, so heavy. And suddenly someone touches my shoulder and I can vividly remember that it was wet shoulder touching my shoulder, walk with me and said, give me all your bag. And I couldn't see his face because all his hair was in his face. And I just passed my bag, I passed it to him and I just put it on. I thought it's in his shoulder. But when he went up the hill, I saw he's Carrying the cross, and I put all my bag on the cross.

Matt: 22:11

Wow. So he touches you on the shoulder in this dream, just when you were at your lowest point fed up with life, desperate and said, give me your burdens, your bags, your heavy loads. And they ended up on the cross, on his back going up the hill. Wow. Yes. That's so precious. But you didn't know what it meant.

Esther: 22:32

No. So I wake up and I was so scared, and I start. Praying to God I know, to save me from Jesus.

Matt: 22:42

Oh,

Esther: 22:43

I was so scared. But it was so comforting because when I was child, we never talk about Jesus. In our school. We have some Armenian people, which there was Christian, but we weren't allowed to speak to them. We shouldn't touch them because especially in sports when it was raining, because in Islam, if you touch something which is wet and unclean, you become unclean and you have to go through all the ceremony to clean yourself, which is very, very long. I remember we had to separate ourself from those people because to us they were unclean and we shouldn't touch them. So I was so, scared. to see Jesus, and I thought, this is kind of punishment. But at the same time, I had butterfly in my heart, which I couldn't understand why I'm so happy. It was a joy in my heart and I didn't understand it at all. That's

Matt: 23:40

so interesting. I I've never heard that before because in classical Islam, of course, Jesus or Issa is a great prophet and respected all the Muslims will tell you we respect Issa, we follow him as well. And yet you are saying it was very different for you in Iran at that time you weren't allowed to associate with Christians.

Esther: 23:59

Yeah, of course we respect him as a prophet, But it doesn't mean that we can touch people who are non Muslim because you become un unclean.

Matt: 24:07

Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Really interesting. And did you say he touched your shoulder and it felt wet as well?

Esther: 24:13

Yes, he was completely wet or sweaty or something. Yeah. And then he touched my shoulder. I could feel it. and it didn't end there. So I start my duty. I I went to the shop, open up as usual and I started the school and then I start to hearing things and I said, great, that's what I need. So it was something whispering in my ears to say, I'm your light and salvation. Whom shall I be afraid? I was like, what? And a singing and singing and I said, okay, I am going mad and I have to be careful if you go to someone and said, I'm hearing things. And they said, Ooh. So I couldn't even share with my best friend, no one. So I kept it to myself for six.

Matt: 24:59

Do you think you'd ever heard that verse before? Because that's a verse, isn't it? From the Psalms, my light PS and my Salvation

Esther: 25:05

PSM 27.

Matt: 25:06

Yeah.

Esther: 25:06

No, never, never had a Bible. Then I started writing down all of these things after six months in the school. we had teacher who came to the school one day from Canada. His name was Paul. And I hope he can hear your podcast later. So he said, God asked me to come to your school. I said, okay, we are not advertising. Go and tell your God. And he said, I'm a teacher. And God said, I come here in your school. I said, okay, whatever. But we don't have any vacancy at the moment, but thank you so much. And he said, but I came here to teach. I was like, okay, can you come back tomorrow? And he said, okay. And I dunno why. One of our teachers said I can't work because I'm sick. and I said, okay. So when Paul came the day after, I said, well, your God did something for you because now I have vacancy. Would you like to start? And he said, yes. Where's your chapel? I said, look, Paul, this is very small school. We don't have chapel here. And he said, I need to pray. That was part of the things God asked me to do. I said, well, you can pray in the street. And he was insist to pray for me. And I was like, okay, we are not praying for each other because we are professional buddies. Remember we are not allowed to share anything, but you can pray whatever you want to do. And I was really tired anyway, after six months, the first thing came to my mind, go and show you are writing to Paul. I went to Paul, he said, I'm so sorry. Don't judge me. And I may be crazy, but is this nursery rhyme or something? I dunno why. I just keep feeling I have to show it to you. And he read it. It says Psalm 27 in very funny version. I never heard, where did you copy that? I said, I don't know what is Psalm? And of course he write it with P and he said, it's Psalm.

Matt: 27:01

Wow.

Esther: 27:02

And he said, well, I can find the Bible for you. And he went to the high Street, which used to be lots of book table and ask for any Bible there. And they had one Farsi Bible. And he asked the guy to open Psalm 27. He brought it back and he said, this is what you write. And it was there, not word by word but I knew in Psalm 27.

Matt: 27:31

That's amazing. So God brought this guy, Paul, to your school and after several months of him praying you had that confidence to bring some of what you'd been hearing, these whispers of the psalms in your ear. Okay. Wow. What happened next?

Esther: 27:47

Well, I remember first I found a church, Iranian church near where we lived. I used to go and sit in the back and listen to them. And I scared about all Trinity and everything. I thought, they have three Gods. I couldn't manage one. How can I manage three? So I just run. And God asked me to go back again. So I went back, sit there for three months and, they were very friendly and they came and they just start to talk to me. But I was so scared. So I texted my husband, I said to him, I thought I wanted to become Christian, and he said, I divorce you.

Matt: 28:28

Oh no.

Esther: 28:29

And I was like, why? He said, well, we were in the process of becoming Baha'i. I mean, he was Baha'i, but I was in process of becoming Baha'i. He said, we lost everything because they thought you married the Baha'i person. Now you want to become Christian. Are you mad? I said, probably yes. And anyway I keep praying for the God who I didn't know anything about and I stopped going to church. Instead, I went to Wycliffe Hall, which is the Bible college in Oxford. I went there and I said, look, I'm Muslim and I want to know about your God. Would you mind if I come and study here and I'm only free in evening? And they said, okay, the only course we have is the ordination course, which is in the evening time. And I said, what is the ordination course? And they said, well, you sit with the ordinands who wanted to become a vicar. I was like, I don't mind. I will sit. And I studied for three years with ordinands and the end of second year I knew I'm gonna be baptised. But then God said, wait till your husband become, because he said, I always save the household. And I said, how? And he said, the only things you need to do, show my light to him. Share my love with him. Be you the one I saw. And that was in Genesis when God said, I saw you to Hagar and the God who sees me, no one, a woman, no one who couldn't even talk. He sees me and he said, now share that love with your husband. And I started reading Genesis and I just was so excited. I was in love with Hagar.

Matt: 30:26

Yeah.

Esther: 30:26

And and I did. And one day he said, I think I'm ready to give my heart to Jesus. And we sit down to pray about our baptism. And this picture came back again. So I said, I wanted to be baptised in the river. Can you be mad enough to jump with me? And he said, yes. So we have to find the church to baptise us in the river. Wow.

Matt: 30:50

That's amazing. So your husband comes to Christ as well. You get baptised together in a river in the uk. Which is not gonna be very warm.

Esther: 31:00

No, no. The church we went the vicar was Bruce which he still my vicar. And when I shared my story, he was the first one who said, I believe you. When I couldn't believe what I saw, what I had, he said, I believe you, but my dear, you need to wait till June because the weather is very cold now.

Matt: 31:22

Praise God. That's amazing. I love that. God loves families. God loves whole households, doesn't he? Now what about the second painting that you brought with you tonight? Can you say something about that?

Esther: 31:33

Yes. Well, a few. Months after we became Christian, God said, I want to see your empty hand. I want you to serve me. And I was like, I'm serving you. I give some of this space to Christian refugee from school. They come, they're not paying even 50 pounds and it's free. I'm serving you. And he said, no, I want to see your empty hand. I was like, okay. It was very scary. So we sit down with my husband, we pray it was the same message for him, it means we need to sell our business. The business we worked so hard and it was so good. we went to see our solicitor and he said it was the beginning of recession. He said, you can't sell two businesses I said, you advertise. I pray we'll see. And in six months we sold it to the Chinese church who wants to use the whole building to teach Bible to Chinese students. and I thought, okay, that's easy. And I start to go for ordination and I pray to God, I said, look, I can't speak. Do you know who I am? I'm coming from the culture, which the woman don't have any voice. And then he gave me this painting, he gave me that vision. And by the end of that, when I finish it, my husband always said, you over healed. I over healed because I can't stop talking about Jesus now.

Matt: 33:05

Wow. And describe the picture to us.

Esther: 33:08

Well, I think I didn't have any voice and I did pray and I paint this painting and I think, the Holy Spirit just gave me my voice back to Genesis. That was the God who sees me, and he said, I am with you.

Matt: 33:24

Right, because in the painting, just for our listeners who won't be able to see this it's a beautiful painting of a face, but the mouth is kind of hidden. Yeah. So the Lord was saying to you, I'm releasing your mouth, part of your ordination calling, and you will be a voice for me. When you've come from that background of not being seen, first of all, and then not being able to speak, I'm now releasing you into a new ministry where you will be a speaker for me.

Esther: 34:36

Yes, but that wasn't that easy. I wish it was. When we sold that business, my husband start studying as a accountant and I went through the ordination process, which they call it fast track. It take 18 months. At the end of that they said no because we never had any people, from Muslim background, so the Church of England never had someone like you. And we don't think you're ready. And I wasn't ready, but I was very disappointed because I believed that was God calling me So kind of was angry and I said to God, if you don't want me to help people to see better in church, since we don't have any business, I joined optician. So I start working as spec saver, helping people to see better there.

Matt: 35:20

Okay. But we know it didn't end there. You didn't stay at Specsavers?

Esther: 35:25

No. And then I went to another optician down the road, and I worked for eight years before God asked me, okay you need to go again. And I said, no, that was very painful. I had another painting for that time but he told me the story of Simon of Cyrene. He said he was outsider, but it's not about who you are, it's about carrying the cross. And I said, okay, I can hear you, but I won't resign before they say yes to me, is that deal. And that was the deal. So it took like another two years, you know, the process of Church of England yeah, when they said yes, when I had letter from Bishop and I.

Matt: 36:09

Wow, that's amazing. So you were patient, you had those setbacks, those disappointments, frustrations, rejection in a sense, but you persevered and you tried again at the right time and now you are serving as a church leader.

Esther: 36:23

Yes, I am. But I always set up as your ideal. Lord, I'm right behind you.

Matt: 36:28

Yeah. I like that analogy of Simon, of Cyrene because. Yeah. We don't talk about him much. Right. But if I remember rightly, Cyrene I think, is North Africa?

Esther: 36:37

Yes.

Matt: 36:37

Yeah.

Esther: 36:38

Yeah. He was a black person Yeah. Who was very unusual on that time even.

Matt: 36:42

Yeah.

Esther: 36:43

In Middle East. And no, we never heard his story, but yeah, he either could take it willingly or he was compelled to carry the cross. And I've read the story and I said, I'm gonna do it willingly. Lord, don't compel me to do that.

Matt: 36:59

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. This is amazing. Esther. Thank you so much for sharing the beginnings of your story with us and some of your upbringing. I know there's a lot more to say. Before we wrap it up, what would you say is your heart for Iran these days? Obviously we're in a time where there's chaos at the moment and we dunno what is gonna happen in your country. And I feel so sorry for. Your people and all the people who are suffering and being killed in the very weeks that we're, doing this episode. So I wanted to say that, but can you give us some of your reflections just on, you know, being an Iranian and, how do we pray for your people? How can we see your people in this time?

Esther: 37:41

Well, I always believe, I dunno the future, but I know who holds the future. I trust God wholeheartedly. and I, if I may, can I share one story

Matt: 37:53

please?

Esther: 37:53

From another friends of mine who came to UK became Christian and then suddenly one day She came to us as a group and she said, Lord asked me to start memorizing the Bible. And I was like, okay. And she start memorizing New Testament. We used to quiz her and she was fine. After two years, she knew all the New Testament in my heart. We used to call her walking Bible and laugh and say, okay, what's next? Everyone were waiting. And then she came back to us and said, now God asked me to go back to Iran. And we said, you can't. It's too dangerous. and she were at that time, well known leader working in satellite. Everyone knew her, even government. And we said, are you crazy? You want to go back in Iran? You know what happened? She said, that's what Lord asked me. She went immediately arrested in the airport, went to the prison, and then God asked her to share all this verse writing in the wall in the prison cell through her. Around 500, 1000 people came to Faith. In prison? After five years the government said, we release you, but you have to leave the country now. Wow. Because you so dangerous. They couldn't kill her because we start having a campaign and that's why they couldn't touch her. But they said we escort you to the airport. You're not talking to anyone. So she came back but lots of people became Christian through her.

Matt: 39:38

That's amazing. I mean, that kind of courage really challenges us,

Esther: 39:42

is trusting God.

Matt: 39:44

Yeah,

Esther: 39:44

wholeheartedly. And I think most people like me, when you are a refugee. You don't know what is tomorrow for you.

Matt: 39:51

Mm.

Esther: 39:52

You never know. Are you gonna stay or the Home Office is gonna send you back. And You start to just live an unknown day in life without knowing what's gonna happen. And then it become part of your life. It become like you don't need to do anything because God will carry all this problem. He's the one who give you daily bread every day, and you. learn how to live every day and trust God. Sometimes I'm in a very difficult situation and I keep praying, Lord, I don't need to be worried because I know you're working on tomorrow, and tomorrow is another day and you are there already. So I trust in you. Trusting God is something I think when we live in a safe space You miss that because you feel like you are in charge. But when you don't meaning you are not in charge, then you know that you trust in God and he's the only source for you.

Matt: 40:56

So definitely that's something we can be doing for the Iranian church these days. Praying for them to continue to be so courageous and such an amazing example to us. Whatever the future holds for them politically.

Esther: 41:09

Absolutely. And also I have to say, God's working through this regime because I remember once one of these Ayatollahs, which is the leader of Iran show the New Testament, which is in a red booklet, small one in a tv, and said, don't touch this book because this is very dangerous book. And because my husband had a bookshop after that, everyone came to the bookshop and said, do you have the red book? And the book actually came in different color, the yellow green. I said, no, no, no, no. We only want a red book. And it's a huge awakening now in Iran. So people travel to go outside Iran to be baptised and then sent back inside. And we have lots of underground churches, they have holy communion in one kind because you can't have wine in Iran. Or the community and the church is only three or four because you can't, you know, gather more than this just for security reason. And people going to prison willingly for Jesus, and they stand firm for that.

Matt: 42:13

Wow. Yeah. We've had a couple of Iranians on the podcast before, talking about the incredible growth of the underground church, the persecution. I mean, one of the guys on the show Mojtaba Hosseini talked about his years in prison. It is not nice. I mean, filthy and rats and overcrowded cells, and he was there a couple of years as well. So, yeah, it's very serious. But it's amazing how God's love can shine in the midst of that and give people such hope in the midst of hopelessness. And that's been your story, hasn't it? I'm gonna hold that image of you seeing Jesus taking your burdens away and just releasing you from this fear of an angry God. But coming to know the father, the savior, and the friend that we have and it's amazing. Yeah. Do you wanna leave us with a final comment?

Esther: 42:59

Well, yeah. I have two kids and both of them after few years, they both said We want the God who changed you, Mum!. I wasn't that bad, but I mean that was their testimony. So they both baptised and confirm and that was their decision and that was amazing things.

Matt: 43:17

Wow. Praise God. So the whole family has come to Christ. Yeah. That was the same in my own family actually as well. Amazing. I don't want to stop because I have a hundred more questions. But thank you so much for joining us on the show and sharing your story with us. It's such an honor for us.

Esther: 43:32

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

43:36

Thanks so much for joining us today, guys. Do get in touch if you want to share how God is speaking to you through the podcast, or if you want to give to the work that we're doing, reaching out with the good news to Muslims all over the world. You can email me personally, matt@frontiers.org.uk and we'll finish with a quotation from Dick Brogden. God is just as good to us in his denials as he is in his approvals. The denials of God are immeasurable mercies. If God answered all our prayers with a positive response, how miserable we would be? Thank heaven that heaven says no. Negation restrictions, refusals denials, and rejections are all divine mercies. May we be as thankful when God says no, as when he says yes. Have a great week and do join us next time to hear from more ordinary people serving our extraordinary God in some of the toughest parts of the world.